Bodak Death...raise ok?

[Empirate]

Death Ward is only 4th level.

Death Ward also has a duration measured in mere minutes. Besides, it's not an automatic "memorize this" spell at the level you get it, since it's rather specific in what it does, and death effects don't tend to crop up at every corner at 7th/8th level.

If you don't know beforehand that you'll be facing a Bodak (and don't know beforehand quite specifically when and where the likelihood of Bodaks roaming the dungeon is high), you probably won't have the spell up in time, even if you have it memorized. It only takes one natural 1 to take the Cleric, who is the likely caster of that Death Ward, out of the game.

 

[frankthedm]

I'd also like to suggest that by one interpretation of the Gentle Repose spell, you can delay the duration of a Death-effect-turned-into-an-undead-monster process for a longer stretch of time until you can track down that Resurrection. This method may be subject to DM approval.

I'm interested in hearing the rules basis for that interpretation because to me it sounds like blatant player coddling. Nothing in the spell indicates it will stop the conversion to undeath.

You preserve the remains of a dead creature so that they do not decay. Doing so effectively extends the time limit on raising that creature from the dead (see raise dead). Days spent under the influence of this spell don’t count against the time limit.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Even if you enjoy save or die, having it as an effect that happens just from opening a door without your eyes closed, and at a level MUCH lower than the spell required to undo it is even available is just incredibly terrible awful horrible design.

What good does scouting ahead do? Only the poor scout bites it in a sudden, random fashion, rather than the whole party? Awesome! What a great job that is, I wonder why more PCs don't volunteer to do it...?

Wait, you mean if a character failed his save against a surprise bodak appearance and died it wouldn't be fair?

I used a bodak once and the PCs killed it without even figuring out what it was. They even lost an animal companion (which was fortunate; I needed to get rid of it anyway for plot reasons). The save is too easy.

A bodak is a tool. If you want to subject the PCs to a suddenly and shockingly lethal monster, you can use it to get their attention. If you don't want to kill a PC, don't put them against something that can kill them. There are plenty of mosters besides the bodak, medusa, catoblepas, etc. Frankly, the game needs more lethality, not less.

All of which is an aside to:

I would like to point out that while Raise Dead specifically states it would not raise a character killed by a death effect, Resurrection and higher spells specifically indicate they can bring back to life someone killed by a death effect.

I'd also like to suggest that by one interpretation of the Gentle Repose spell, you can delay the duration of a Death-effect-turned-into-an-undead-monster process for a longer stretch of time until you can track down that Resurrection. This method may be subject to DM approval.

I concur.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I'm interested in hearing the rules basis for that interpretation because to me it sounds like blatant player coddling. Nothing in the spell indicates it will stop the conversion to undeath.

You preserve the remains of a dead creature so that they do not decay. Doing so effectively extends the time limit on raising that creature from the dead (see raise dead). Days spent under the influence of this spell don’t count against the time limit.

This is most definitely my interpretation of the spell, under the RAI assumption that the dead body slows down in all ways, not simply in the time it takes to meet the requirements for Raise Dead.
I wholeheartedly agree that my interpretation is not the only one a person can make on that spell, and would have no objections to someone ruling otherwise.
Although, if I wanted to be very strict about wording, the line "Additionally, this spell makes transporting a fallen comrade more pleasant." could be interpretated that It would be much more pleasant that your dead comerade did not rise as a Bodak, Wight, Vampire, etc...
Obviously this is me stretching wording rediculiously. But it adds to the flavor of the spell to indicate the slowing of the body processes to more than ONLY the duration of the Raise Dead spell.

 

[Wellby]

Thanks for this great discussion about our Bodak death!

In this case, a suddenly lethal out of nowhere death REALLY helped...bc of how easily they had just gone through a TOUGH section. It's the Demon Council in the Demonweb Pits big adventure, and having gone in with wands of align weapon and protection from evil, they easily sliced through every demon and none of the many mind-affecting spells touched them. It was so painfully, or painlessly easy, that this DM was a bit shocked.

Thus, when the Bodak guarding the Celestian Cyst quite suddenly killed a party member, I must say, the s***-eating grins of the PCs suddenly falling away was a tad nice to see....(and I'm really no Killer DM)

 

[Aeolius]

I'd have fun with it. Keep the character as a bodak. ( bodach : "A bodach, as borrowed into English, is a mythical spirit or creature, rather like the bogeyman. In Modern Scottish Gaelic the word simply means "old man")

Of course, as an "Old Man", I'd involve the Cailleach (old woman).

After the character dies, they are approached by a covey of hags who admit they cannot bring him back to life, but they can prevent his terrible death gaze and keep his soul from true evil. When the fledgeling bodak begins to rise, they pluck out his eyes. In one socket, they place one of their hag's eye talismans. The other socket they cover with an eye patch.

They tell the bodak that to prevent the eyes from returning, he must kill one sentient soul each day and witness the act with the hags' eye. They then give him a list of "worthy souls" to begin with.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Wait, you mean if a character failed his save against a surprise bodak appearance and died it wouldn't be fair?

Yes. That is what I mean.

I used a bodak once and the PCs killed it without even figuring out what it was. They even lost an animal companion (which was fortunate; I needed to get rid of it anyway for plot reasons). The save is too easy.

And that exemplifies the other half of why the Bodak is the worst designed monster possibly ever. Not only does it have the instant kill for looking at me ability...but it lacks really...anything at all else. Anything uniquely identifiable, anything fun or interesting, any combat ability whatsoever. A party that knows to walk in blindfolded would utterly curbstomp the Bodak, without fail. The ONLY thing it has at all is the broken insta death gaze. How is that not godawful monster design?

A bodak is a tool. If you want to subject the PCs to a suddenly and shockingly lethal monster, you can use it to get their attention.

You get their attention by arbitrarily killing off their characters? Well, statistically not all of them. Some will make the save, and some will be lucky enough to not be the first ones into the room. Still nice to know my character's about as expendable as a pack animal for the noble cause of "making some random monster really scary." Until it dies a few rounds later anyway cause it completely sucks once you know about its one trick. Oooh, scary!

If you don't want to kill a PC, don't put them against something that can kill them.

I love how using Bodaks or never letting a PC die are the only two options. (does ENWorld have an eyeroll emoticon?)

There are plenty of mosters besides the bodak, medusa, catoblepas, etc.

None of the others are quite as bad as the Bodak. Between the severity of the "condition" he imparts and how completely devoid of mechanics or flavor he is beyond that, no other creature is as poorly designed. Nymph's blinding is much less severe and much easier to cure. Medusa's petrification is easier to cure without negative after effects, either. Oh, and someone was talking about "building up" to the encounter with a Bodak with tell tale signs and using it as a narrative device to force the PCs to fight blind. Well, with a Medusa, you get to see statues or "disturbingly shaped piecies of rock that look like fingers and such," depending on if the medusa likes ot smash her victims or leave them as trophies.
What does a Bodak leave as a tell tale sign of his presence? More Bodaks, of course!

Frankly, the game needs more lethality, not less.

Maybe you think so. Most people consider 3E to be (too) loaded with Rocket Tag and insane levels of lethality already, more so than probably any other edition of the game.

All of which is an aside to...

I'd allow that, too. But it's definitely not RAW, or at least not clearly RAW. And I'd never use something like a Bodak to begin with anyway.

 

[Vegepygmy]

I'm interested in hearing the rules basis for that interpretation because to me it sounds like blatant player coddling. Nothing in the spell indicates it will stop the conversion to undeath.

Agreed.

It should be noted, however, that consecrate will do the trick, and is the same level as gentle repose.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Agreed.

It should be noted, however, that consecrate will do the trick, and is the same level as gentle repose.

Oh! I never thought of that before. "...Undead cannot be created within or summoned into a consecrated area." Duration 2 hours/level. This should prevent the raising of an undead creature, at least for the duration of the spell.
Much, MUCH better than Gentle Repose. I'll try to remember that!

 

[frankthedm]

It should be noted, however, that consecrate will do the trick, and is the same level as gentle repose.

It is a good idea, but, the duration is just 2 hours a level and some of the spawning windows are the entire next night for energy drain wights and 1d4 days for some creatures. But it will be a godsend against shadows, wights, wraiths and other quick spawners

at least for the duration of the spell.

Actually I'd make the argument that RAW once the creature's spawning window elapses the victim is in the clear.