Book of NineSwords

[Piratecat]

Maneuvers are weaker than spells. That's one.

Ahem.

 

[blargney the second]

Ahem.

Most maneuvers are weaker than spells. White Raven Tactics is a sharable quickened time stop for one round... which is a little more powerful than most 3rd level spells.
-blarg

 

[Nifft]

Ahem.

There is one maneuver which is stronger than many Core spells. I consider that an error rather than a categorical classification. In all cases except that one, Maneuvers are weaker than spells.

There's stuff outside of Core can be made to brake the same rules. Mostly for spellcasters, unsurprisingly.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Caliban]

There is one maneuver which is stronger than many Core spells. I consider that an error rather than a categorical classification. In all cases except that one, Maneuvers are weaker than spells.

There's stuff outside of Core can be made to brake the same rules. Mostly for spellcasters, unsurprisingly.

Cheers, -- N

I think he was implying that your statement was an opinion - not a fact.

Certainly sounded like your opinion to me, even though you called it a fact.

Cause you are basically saying that the strongest maneuver is weaker than the weakest cantrip or first level spell with a blanket statement like that.

 

[Piratecat]

I was trying to politely remind you that you were getting dangerously close to the 'being deliberately condescending and picking a fight' stage. I wasn't referring to your rules argument, which I agree with. I should have been more explicit.

So I will be. It seems to me that you're getting dangerously close to the 'being deliberately condescending and picking a fight' stage. Please don't. And, as always, feel free to email me if you want to discuss it.

 

[Slaved]

So, if the caster's method for recovering spells was as good as a warblade's method for recovering maneuvers, it would "make sense" to compare them (in which case they'd be equal and the comparison wouldn't be damning).

But the reality is that not only are they not even remotely equal; one is a swift action and the other is sleeping for 8 hours. You are trying to use the vast superiority of the warblade's recovery method as a way of invalidating the comparison.

They are not remotely on the same plane for comparison. They are worlds apart and the only thing that they have in common is that they happen to have similar level slots and are aquired as levels increase.

The way they are used are different, the ways they are recovered are different, what they do and how they accomplish what they do are different, and they are based on completely different paradigms.

What comparison are you trying to make? They are simply too different to compare their recovery methods in any good way, especially if you are trying to relate that somehow to power level.

That, my friend, is a canard. We are not comparing too different concepts. Both are methods for recovering character resources.

Both are methods of recovering specific resources yes, but the resources recovered and their uses and how they are used and basically just about everything are so different that you are going to need a lot more in that comparison to say anything that might be helpful here.

Warlocks never expend their class abilities, magic items refresh on their own after a certain period of time, a Pit Fiend gets one wish every year, and so on. These are all methods of recovery, or lack of a need to, but they cannot be compared by their recovery methods alone either. It simply takes more than that.

 

[Nifft]

Will avoid fighting. Sorry!

-- N

 

[Stalker0]

Most people's actual experience (from this thread) suggest that barbarian do more damage than B09S classes. But how much more? I mean, if the barb is doing only 10 damage more per swing while the swordsage is virtually d dooring, healing himself, going invisible and all of that jazz, then I would say that barb isn't really winning.

 

[blargney the second]

Note to self: if Piratecate does a red "Ahem", it's either moderation or tuberculosis.
-blarg

 

[Nifft]

Most people's actual experience (from this thread) suggest that barbarian do more damage than B09S classes. But how much more? I mean, if the barb is doing only 10 damage more per swing while the swordsage is virtually d dooring, healing himself, going invisible and all of that jazz, then I would say that barb isn't really winning.

- Crusader is the healing guy. Has battlefield-control maneuvers and ally-boosting stuff.

- Swordsage is the "magical" special effect guy.

- Barbarian analogue is the Warblade; he's the guy who gets the maneuvers which emulate feats, too (like Disarming Strike and Mithral Whirlwind).

In terms of Barbarians winning, they also get constant fast movement, Uncanny Dodge, DR, more in-combat hit points (thanks to Con boost during Rage), and better saves (Con boost + Will save boost during Rage).

Cheers, -- N