Book of NineSwords

[szilard]

Not entirely true.

The Warblade may take a full-attack action and still recover his manuevers.

Errr... yeah. I guess it can. The Warblade I am playing only has a BAB of 5 at the moment, so this hasn't been an issue for me.

-Stuart

 

[Slaved]

The biggy is the adaptive stance thing which _needs_ to be nerfed for swordsages. I don't really see much else that's unclear in the Bo9S. (And I don't think that's unclear, just poorly thought out.)

Is having to spend a feat and lose a round of actions such a small cost? I would think that even without the feat cost having to give up those actions would be a rather hefty limiting factor!

 

[Slaved]

In this case, there's nothing up for grabs. As long as the reader doesn't just breeze through the section with some assumed notion of reasonable limitations, it's plain to see that a warblade can recover maneuvers at no cost while attacking.

The swift action is no cost?

 

[brehobit]

Is having to spend a feat and lose a round of actions such a small cost? I would think that even without the feat cost having to give up those actions would be a rather hefty limiting factor!

Limiting, yes. However, the difficulty in recovering maneuvers is the significant limitation on a swordsage. A feat which does that and more is overpowered IMO. The rare times the swordsage in our games wasn't dominant involved rather drawn-out combats. And yes, he did spend two full round actions just to get to maneuvers back.

Mark

 

[Felon]

The swift action is no cost?

LOL, I knew someone would pull that.

I said it was no real cost, and I'm happy standing by that.

 

[Slaved]

LOL, I knew someone would pull that.

I said it was no real cost, and I'm happy standing by that.

Of course someone would pull it! It had to be pulled. If you do not want it pulled then it should not be wrapped in candy...........

I notice you changed out the last bit of your post so I will not respond to the missing comment.

You did not say it was no real cost though, you said no cost.

It is a cost though and from my own experience plus hearing about others it is a cost which definately hurts when it must be paid.

 

[SteveC]

Well, as long as you're amused, it's all worthwhile.

What you see as a contradiction is in fact a correlation. The people who cite abuse potential tend to be those who are good at spotting it in the language of the rules. Conversely, those who tend to dismiss the notion of abuse potential tend not to be so discriminating.

In this case, there's nothing up for grabs. As long as the reader doesn't just breeze through the section with some assumed notion of reasonable limitations, it's plain to see that a warblade can recover maneuvers at no cost while attacking.

Funny, I was going to say that those people who read waaaaay too much into the rules so as to have balance arguments are really good at finding such wording. But that's just me. And when either of us get to work for WotC, perhaps our opinions will matter in the slightest.

--Steve

 

[Felon]

See, that's what really keeps leaving me with the impression that Bo9S advocates are big-time rationalizers. How do you take the miniscule cost of a swift action and magnify it into something genuinely painful? As the description for swift actions itself states, many characters can go their entire career without noticing the presence or absence of swift actions.

Any kind of ROI analysis (not to mention common sense) pretty handily shows a swift action is chickenfeed compared to say...waiting until midnight to pray for an hour, or sleeping for 8 hours.

 

[IanB]

If the MIC is going to play any sort of real role in the campaign, swift/immediate action management becomes a much bigger concern for all characters, but especially for classes that use swift/immediate actions in their own mechanics.

If you're not using the MIC, then it isn't a really big deal.

 

[Slaved]

See, that's what really keeps leaving me with the impression that Bo9S advocates are big-time rationalizers. How do you take the miniscule cost of a swift action and magnify it into something genuinely painful? As the description for swift actions itself states, many characters can go their entire career without noticing the presence or absence of swift actions.

Any kind of ROI analysis (not to mention common sense) pretty handily shows a swift action is chickenfeed compared to say...waiting until midnight to pray for an hour, or sleeping for 8 hours.

I take this to mean that you have never actually played the Warblade. Is it a rationalization to merely be describing the balancing mechanic and to say that it definately works in my experience and in others? If so, what would not be a rationalization in your eyes?