Book of Vile Darkness
- Thread starter Son_of_Thunder
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Blackwind
Explorer
I'm buying it for sure. The campaign I'm currently running has several evil characters in it, and the subject matter is somewhat dark (a new island is discovered by Cali
e sailors, and the underground ruins hint at a lost civilization destroyed by an unspeakable evil). I also need the stats for the demon princes and whatnot. But most importantly, I want 3e systems for drug addiction (although we've seen some of this Lords of Darkness). Monte will probably do a good job with that kind of thing, that Robert Anton Wilson fan. Not to imply anything.
e sailors, and the underground ruins hint at a lost civilization destroyed by an unspeakable evil). I also need the stats for the demon princes and whatnot. But most importantly, I want 3e systems for drug addiction (although we've seen some of this Lords of Darkness). Monte will probably do a good job with that kind of thing, that Robert Anton Wilson fan. Not to imply anything.
Son_of_Thunder
Explorer
WOW!!! Thanks for the replies!
Thanks for the replies gang.
I would add that I will not get the book. I agree with Dr. Midnight. Monte seems to have an unhealthy fascination with evil. On Monte's boards I asked him what his feelings were like while writing the book. His reply was that he had a tough time as it was dark subject matter.
As another poster put it, just look in the local and national news to get good ideas for evil and villians. Take local news for example. An eleven year old girl was taken from her room at three in the morning, raped, then her assailant was caught in the act of bludgeoning her trying to kill her. The police showed up just in time. The girl is still in critical condition with every bone in her face broken.
As a side note, some want to know where my moniker comes from. It comes from The Good Book, St. Mark chapter 3 verse 17 to be exact.
Son of Thunder
Thanks for the replies gang.
I would add that I will not get the book. I agree with Dr. Midnight. Monte seems to have an unhealthy fascination with evil. On Monte's boards I asked him what his feelings were like while writing the book. His reply was that he had a tough time as it was dark subject matter.
As another poster put it, just look in the local and national news to get good ideas for evil and villians. Take local news for example. An eleven year old girl was taken from her room at three in the morning, raped, then her assailant was caught in the act of bludgeoning her trying to kill her. The police showed up just in time. The girl is still in critical condition with every bone in her face broken.
As a side note, some want to know where my moniker comes from. It comes from The Good Book, St. Mark chapter 3 verse 17 to be exact.
Son of Thunder
William Ronald
Explorer
I suspect the additional powers will have several drawbacks. This would fit in well with folklore, where those in the service of dark powers are sometimes marked by them. In my campaign, cheap power always comes with a high price .... in the end.
As for real world evil, Son of Thunder, I agree that human history and current events provide a lot of insight into human evil. Possibly the Book of Vile Darkness will explore how human evil is modified when it comes into contact with supernatural evil.
I think both the Villains Design Handbook and Book of Vile Darkness may be valuable for DMs to gain an insight into their villains. As such, they may make campaigns more enjoyable. (Great heroes need adversaries.)
As for real world evil, Son of Thunder, I agree that human history and current events provide a lot of insight into human evil. Possibly the Book of Vile Darkness will explore how human evil is modified when it comes into contact with supernatural evil.
I think both the Villains Design Handbook and Book of Vile Darkness may be valuable for DMs to gain an insight into their villains. As such, they may make campaigns more enjoyable. (Great heroes need adversaries.)
Tiefling
First Post
Additionally, I'm P.O.'d about the name of the book! In a world with tons of races that can see in the dark, and gods who don't care about the little dark=unknown=scary=evil association of humans, darkness shouldn't be constantly associated with evil, and there shouldn't be so many "dark" creatures that actually ARE evil.
William Ronald
Explorer
Tiefling, the book is named after an old magic item from 1st edition.
With that said, it is always interesting to turn a stereotype on its head. For example, Sepulchre II's demon seeking to repent. (Here's a question for the BoVD and the VDH. How to handle a villain who wants to repent. Sometimes a person will realize he has made a mess of things and wants to make amends.) It is always fun to make the characters think.
With that said, it is always interesting to turn a stereotype on its head. For example, Sepulchre II's demon seeking to repent. (Here's a question for the BoVD and the VDH. How to handle a villain who wants to repent. Sometimes a person will realize he has made a mess of things and wants to make amends.) It is always fun to make the characters think.
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
Citizen K said:
Is this true? I've never heard this before. Did Monte mention this on his site?
I agree with several posters that the BOVD is unnecessary and simply a marketing gimmick for WOTC to attract attention to the game. Attention that will do more harm than good. And despite what peolpe think about Hasbro and Monte's intentions, it will hurt the hobby. The maxim 'any publicity is good publicity' is wrong in the extreme.
Everyone says they don't want to play Evil, but they want the rules to define it. Why do you need to know how powerful the villain gets by sodomizing and killing a slew of people when the characters are supposed to stop it? If they succeed, it won't happen. If they fail, they'll most likely die and not see the results. The rest is gratuitous in the extreme.
As an example, I had one character as the sole surviver in the final fight of a campaign against dark elves trying to conquer the surface world. She was taken prisoner at 0 HP. I started a new campaign intead of telling her how her character would be brutalized by the Dark Elves in graphic fasion and making her play it out until she died. The rest of the characters had horrors enough imagining what the Evil bastards did to the losers in that war without any extrapolation by me.
And just what is wrong with peoples imaginations, anyway. Why do you need definate rules for the damage caused by rape? Isn't it degrading enough in a story sense without attaching mechanics to it? And what, exactly do those have to do with the characters anyways? Are a lot of you so creatively dead that your villians have to personally inflict these things on the characters to seem 'bad enough.' How friggin unimaginative are you and how jaded are your players?!
A good DM can roleplay the after-effects of such activity without describing the act itself in gruesome detail: A catatonic woman who has had horrors unkown to common folk visited upon her. A family terrorized by a viscious father with an otherworldly agenda. The despair of an NPC who is destroying his life and those around him due to an unhealthy addiction. All of these things are better explored from the human side and emotional after-effects than by vivd description of the acts themselves. These things invoke a human, emotional attachment to the situation and characters, which is the the focus of any good fiction as opposed to appealing to lewdness and voyerism. The difference between a thriller like Se7en and a slasher flick like Friday the 13th.
Had to cut something out here...
Such rude and condescending behavior is not appropriate in EN World; please don't do it again.
- Darkness
I personally don't see any other good reason to release this book with graphic content that has been sent back again and again as 'not naked and bloody enough.' Fiend Folio is going to be filled with demons and devils. Kenzer and Company have created a book that deals with the story elements of being a villian without delving into the gruesome mechanics of torture, human sacrifice. rape, etc. The creature Catalog is available for anyone who wants coverted deamon princes. The television is overloaded with atrocities enough to inspire a lifetime of sleepless nights. If I were so seriously lacking imagination and my players were so bored that I needed someone else to spice up my villians for me in such an unsubtle way, I would have enough in those areas alone to inspire me. Failing that, I'd just turn over DM'ing to someone with a little more creativity...
Everyone says they don't want to play Evil, but they want the rules to define it. Why do you need to know how powerful the villain gets by sodomizing and killing a slew of people when the characters are supposed to stop it? If they succeed, it won't happen. If they fail, they'll most likely die and not see the results. The rest is gratuitous in the extreme.
As an example, I had one character as the sole surviver in the final fight of a campaign against dark elves trying to conquer the surface world. She was taken prisoner at 0 HP. I started a new campaign intead of telling her how her character would be brutalized by the Dark Elves in graphic fasion and making her play it out until she died. The rest of the characters had horrors enough imagining what the Evil bastards did to the losers in that war without any extrapolation by me.
And just what is wrong with peoples imaginations, anyway. Why do you need definate rules for the damage caused by rape? Isn't it degrading enough in a story sense without attaching mechanics to it? And what, exactly do those have to do with the characters anyways? Are a lot of you so creatively dead that your villians have to personally inflict these things on the characters to seem 'bad enough.' How friggin unimaginative are you and how jaded are your players?!
A good DM can roleplay the after-effects of such activity without describing the act itself in gruesome detail: A catatonic woman who has had horrors unkown to common folk visited upon her. A family terrorized by a viscious father with an otherworldly agenda. The despair of an NPC who is destroying his life and those around him due to an unhealthy addiction. All of these things are better explored from the human side and emotional after-effects than by vivd description of the acts themselves. These things invoke a human, emotional attachment to the situation and characters, which is the the focus of any good fiction as opposed to appealing to lewdness and voyerism. The difference between a thriller like Se7en and a slasher flick like Friday the 13th.
Had to cut something out here...
Such rude and condescending behavior is not appropriate in EN World; please don't do it again.- Darkness
I personally don't see any other good reason to release this book with graphic content that has been sent back again and again as 'not naked and bloody enough.' Fiend Folio is going to be filled with demons and devils. Kenzer and Company have created a book that deals with the story elements of being a villian without delving into the gruesome mechanics of torture, human sacrifice. rape, etc. The creature Catalog is available for anyone who wants coverted deamon princes. The television is overloaded with atrocities enough to inspire a lifetime of sleepless nights. If I were so seriously lacking imagination and my players were so bored that I needed someone else to spice up my villians for me in such an unsubtle way, I would have enough in those areas alone to inspire me. Failing that, I'd just turn over DM'ing to someone with a little more creativity...
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Monte Cook has already explicitly said that the book does not cover rape nor prostitution. I think rules for a villain selling his soul are very useful. The demonic pact is a staple of fantasy and mythological villany and well within the bounds of good taste when confined to an adversary for the party to struggle against in the name of goodness. However, there is currently very little support for this in any books, anywhere -- is the Mongoose Demonology book the only book that has this? Likewise, sacrificing victims to a god is another staple. This one even transcends literature and enters the realm of real life -- Aztecs for starters. The book is a tool and it sounds like it will have some good uses. It covers many of the classic literary themes of the genre.
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