D&D 5E Booming Blade seems a bit powerful

[Quartz]

The target has no condition, restrained or other.

The text explicitly says that the target cannot move without taking extra damage. No, the target is not restrained - the target can move and take the extra damage - but to avoid the extra damage the target must remain still. In which case everyone attacking that target gets Advantage on their attacks.

 

[Fanaelialae]

The text explicitly says that the target cannot move without taking extra damage. No, the target is not restrained - the target can move and take the extra damage - but to avoid the extra damage the target must remain still. In which case everyone attacking that target gets Advantage on their attacks.

You're interpreting it too literally. As I and others have said, move in this instance refers to moving out of the space you currently occupy, rather than standing perfectly still. If you say that the language could use some clarification, I'll even agree with you.

This cantrip was taken almost verbatim from a 4e Swordmage power (where it was clearer that it referred to leaving your space). If you need more proof, think about it logically. Which makes more sense, that the designers added a cantrip that causes paralysis unless you take a bunch of damage, or that it prevents you from moving from your space (or you take a bunch of damage)? I think it's fairly obvious that the latter is far more in line with the power level of a cantrip.

 

[mach1.9pants]

It certainly means moving from your space. If the literal interpretation is correct not only does this become ridiculously op but how do you adjudicate it. Blinking? Breathing? Heart beat? There is no way you could hold yourself completely still in the middle of combat for ten seconds.

 

[Celtavian]

The text explicitly says that the target cannot move without taking extra damage. No, the target is not restrained - the target can move and take the extra damage - but to avoid the extra damage the target must remain still. In which case everyone attacking that target gets Advantage on their attacks.

That's not how it works within the context of the game rules. Move means take the move action or willingly use movement. Period. End of story. You are not restrained, paralyzed, or anything of the kind. If you want to try to prove your viewpoint by waiting for a game designer to tell you what everyone else is telling you, have at it.

 

[bid]

And that assumes that the lore bard / cleric / druid has a 20 Str and picked up proficiency in a two-handed martial weapon, which is far from a foregone conclusion in my book.

Yes. The point was BB/GFB under optimal circumstances is just as good as a fighter or warlock damage.

Still, those extra 3d8 damage sure make clerics praise their lord.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Yes. The point was BB/GFB under optimal circumstances is just as good as a fighter or warlock damage.

Still, those extra 3d8 damage sure make clerics praise their lord.

My point was that it requires optimal circumstances. Booming Blade in no way compares against simply being a fighter or a warlock, because those classes don't need optimal circumstances to deal that kind of damage. Which is not to say that it isn't a great cantrip, particularly for certain builds. But it's not the second coming of the Agonizing Blast / Eldritch Blast combo.

 

[Xeviat]

Your calculation assumes that the target will willingly move. If not:

BB 17th = 1d12+5+3d8 = 25 damage

And that assumes that the lore bard / cleric / druid has a 20 Str and picked up proficiency in a two-handed martial weapon, which is far from a foregone conclusion in my book.

What about the Eldritch Knight?

EK 17th = 2d6*+5+3d8+2d6*+5 = 16.7+23.5 = 40.2, with a potential for +18 if the target moves. The Valor Bard could get this full value out of it too, unless a cantrip doesn't count as a spell for the bard.

 

[Fanaelialae]

What about the Eldritch Knight?

EK 17th = 2d6*+5+3d8+2d6*+5 = 16.7+23.5 = 40.2, with a potential for +18 if the target moves. The Valor Bard could get this full value out of it too, unless a cantrip doesn't count as a spell for the bard.

The fighter can deal 46 points of damage just by full attacking at level 20. Meaning that, unless the target moves (which is up to the DM, since it has to be willing movement) he's actually hurting his output at level 20 by using BB. It is a moderate damage boost from levels 17 to 19, but for three levels that many campaigns won't even see is it even worth mentioning?

It's a nice boost for the Valor Bard to be sure, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that it allows him to outperform a vanilla Fighter, much less a Fighter with a high damage weapon and/or the GWF feat. Also, he doesn't even get the ability to cast a cantrip and attack until 14th level. Plus, he has to use either a feat, multiclass, or use Magical Secrets to even gain access to BB.

I still think that, as far as damage goes, it is a powerful option for some builds, but not too powerful. The move damage is negligible, as it will rarely trigger. Of course if a party were designed around this spell, utilizing the Mobility feat (for example) so that no one is ever in melee with the target of BB, then I would consider that combination OP. But it probably still wouldn't compare to a party specialized in the GWF/SS feats that casts Bless in every encounter.

No RPG with any real level of complexity is unbreakable, if you try hard enough. Ultimately though, it's futile. In an arms race with the DM, no one wins.

 

[Ganymede81]

I still think that, as far as damage goes, it is a powerful option for some builds, but not too powerful.

Is this the proper test to use, though, whether the option is too powerful? Whether it is game-breaking?

Wouldn't it be better to evaluate it in comparison to other cantrips, not in how much it breaks the game?

 

[Fanaelialae]

Is this the proper test to use, though, whether the option is too powerful? Whether it is game-breaking?

Wouldn't it be better to evaluate it in comparison to other cantrips, not in how much it breaks the game?

I don't believe so. I think what ultimately matters is the outcome.

How would one even begin to compare all of the factors that make up a cantrip? Booming Blade requires you to be adjacent to the target. Fire Bolt allows me to attack from 120 feet away. How much damage is it worth if an average enemy must spend two or more rounds dashing to even reach me? Is that a realistic scenario in most campaigns or is 60 feet a more realistic starting range? What about weak or situational cantrips? How much should they factor into the evaluation? Where do we factor in class spell lists? After all, many of the options we've been discussing here don't have access to Booming Blade by default. Can we weigh access via a feat, multiclassing or a class ability such as Magical Secrets similarly, or should they be weighted differently? If the latter, how would that even work?

Booming Blade is a good option for some builds, but certainly not all builds. How it compares to other cantrips will be situational at best. It's a waste for any character who plans to stay out of melee. It's useless to anyone without a decent Str or Dex (not counting rare exceptions, such as Bladesingers). And it's a hard choice for anyone without access to the sorcerer, warlock, or wizard spell lists because they'll have to sacrifice some other option (whether it's a different feat, class level, or magical secret).

I don't feel that you can compare cantrips that way. Sure, if you had a cantrip that was identical to Fire Bolt in every way except that it only dealt 1d8 cold damage, you could obviously say that is a weak option. But comparing Fire Bolt to Booming Blade is like comparing Fire Bolt to Mage Hand. While all three obviously have their niches, they're too different for straight comparisons to be meaningful, in my opinion.