D&D 5E Boosting Sorcerers, Focus: Fun (+thread)

[Minigiant]

To me, I'd rather not make the Sorcerer more into a Wizard nor more of a blaster. We have those. To me, the Sorcerer the I'm part magical creature now and get vision spells, hand and foot enhancement spells, and skin spells for free provided they pay with sorcery points.

Dumping 3 sorcery points of an impromptu stonestin feels very sorcerous.

 

[Crit]

I'd cautiously disagree with that. I think the overall concept of the sorcerer pushes you to pick a themed package of spells, but the limitation in the number of spells known means that you generally want to make sure you have all the major power bases covered first, and there isn't a ton of room to make frivolous picks. Most sorcerers I see have some blend of magic missile, shield, mirror image, fireball, counterspell, and haste right off the bat, possibly swapping some for some of the stronger cleric spells if the sorcerer is a divine soul.

In my ideal world, each sorcerer subclass would have a dedicated small spell list they could cast from freely, much like the 3.5 beguiler, and then get a few extra picks like bardic Magical Secrets. Barring that, I think the class needs some incentivization to gain thematic but not top-tier spells to generate more variety.

I agree. I think about Sorcerer a lot, but I feel like a lot of my "themes" struggle to develop in practice. Learning one spell per level is difficult to work with, especially when picking the essentials like Shield or other protective things. Aberrant Mind/Clockwork Soul and Fey Touched/Shadow Touched feel like godsends for how much they free up character build options. I agree with all who notice deeper flaws in Sorcerer, but I just wish every sorcerer subclass was like the new ones. I'd feel like I could play my ideas without getting shafted by WotC.

 

[Stormonu]

One thing I'm working on is giving "ancestries" - similar to the way Pact & Patron works for Warlocks. The ancestry (Dragon, Undead, Genie, etc.) would open the spell list up a bit and maybe add an ability or two - maybe a special metamagic or use for sorcery points, I'm thinking. Dragon, for example, might let you use sorcery points to make a breath weapon attack, fly, resistance, natural weapons and possibly natural armor. Dragon Bloodline and Divine Soul would be subsumed into Ancestry and as a subclass would disappear.
That would open subclasses up for some more interesting things and unique ways of explaining "natural" arcane magic and some variants.

 

[Quickleaf]

So, firstly, I don’t care at all about anything resembling a “your premise is bad” responses. Don’t thread crap. This is a +thread for the purpose of delving into how to make the Sorcerer more fun, and thus isn’t especially a thread for people who don’t think the sorcerer needs a boost.

That said, I don’t think the sorcerer needs a power boost, as such. If it gets one along the way, that’s fine, but I think the issue with the sorcerer is more about the feel of play than about numerical balance.

So, what can be done that isn’t an overhaul? I’m not interested in rewriting classes or using big invasive changes, but rather in simple clean fixes.

What about more metamagics known?

Are any of the metamagics way more restrictive than they need to be?

Would partial SP recovery on a short rest help?

Your thoughts?

My view may be an outlier, but I'd love for Sorcerer to be the cantrip class because it would give them more of an identity that really plays to the lore. When I read that flavor text for the Sorcerer in the PHB, and then look at the class design, it feels like almost all of that flavor text was ignored in favor of replicating something kinda from 3rd edition. So, contrary to how many folks would like to see the sorcerer have more spells known, I'd actually like to see them either keep what they have or even get less spells.

For the purposes of this thread, I hope my suggestion isn't too extreme, but here's how I see it...

Wizards can select just the right spell from a whole plethora of spells, many of which are unique. They're the arcane toolbox.
Warlocks have just a few spells, but also special supernatural abilities. They're the weird stuff.
Bards have spells which they don't need to prepare. They're the jack of all trades.

And Sorcerers have just a few spells, but can modify their cantrips to adapt to situations. They'd kind of be the "fighter" of the arcane classes, blasting strong all day long.

They could start with 5 cantrips and gain a new one every 3-4 levels (e.g. 5 cantrips at 1st level, 6 cantrips at 4th level, 7 cantrips at 7th level, 8 cantrips at 10th level, etc). Their "spell list" – which might more appropriately be called a "cantrip list" – might also include a couple (say, 6 to 8) sorcerer-only cantrips too.

Under the Metamagic section, each cantrip would have a couple unique uses of Metamagic. For example, shoving with mage hand, sounding like somebody else with message, fast-casting mending to rebuild a door/wall and trap a creature in the threshold within, etc.

Rather than a universal spell list, there'd be multiple smaller Sorcerer Theme spell lists, and they'd only get to pick one or two during their entire career as a Sorcerer.

At 1st level they'd also get an One with the Arcane power which allows them to sense magic in creatures and objects (not just detect magic), causes them to radiate magic (would love a RP random table for ideas here, either for the whole class or each subclass), and includes some kind of mishap whenever they roll a '1' on a spell/cantrip attack or an enemy rolls a '20' on a save versus one of their spells/cantrips (again, these tables could be generic to the class or tailored to each subclass).

 

[CleverNickName]

Similar to what @DEFCON 1 was saying further up in the thread...

In my wife's campaign, she lets us choose your spell list from either the Bard, Cleric, Druid, or Sorcerer spell list. We made this choice at 1st level, and once the choice was made we couldn't change it. (If it matters: she allows feats, but not multiclassing, in her game.)

Let me tell ya: metamagic druid spells are things of beauty.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

My view may be an outlier, but I'd love for Sorcerer to be the cantrip class because it would give them more of an identity that really plays to the lore. When I read that flavor text for the Sorcerer in the PHB, and then look at the class design, it feels like almost all of that flavor text was ignored in favor of replicating something kinda from 3rd edition. So, contrary to how many folks would like to see the sorcerer have more spells known, I'd actually like to see them either keep what they have or even get less spells.

For the purposes of this thread, I hope my suggestion isn't too extreme, but here's how I see it...

Wizards can select just the right spell from a whole plethora of spells, many of which are unique. They're the arcane toolbox.
Warlocks have just a few spells, but also special supernatural abilities. They're the weird stuff.
Bards have spells which they don't need to prepare. They're the jack of all trades.

And Sorcerers have just a few spells, but can modify their cantrips to adapt to situations. They'd kind of be the "fighter" of the arcane classes, blasting strong all day long.

They could start with 5 cantrips and gain a new one every 3-4 levels (e.g. 5 cantrips at 1st level, 6 cantrips at 4th level, 7 cantrips at 7th level, 8 cantrips at 10th level, etc). Their "spell list" – which might more appropriately be called a "cantrip list" – might also include a couple (say, 6 to 8) sorcerer-only cantrips too.

Under the Metamagic section, each cantrip would have a couple unique uses of Metamagic. For example, shoving with mage hand, sounding like somebody else with message, fast-casting mending to rebuild a door/wall and trap a creature in the threshold within, etc.

Rather than a universal spell list, there'd be multiple smaller Sorcerer Theme spell lists, and they'd only get to pick one or two during their entire career as a Sorcerer.

At 1st level they'd also get an One with the Arcane power which allows them to sense magic in creatures and objects (not just detect magic), causes them to radiate magic (would love a RP random table for ideas here, either for the whole class or each subclass), and includes some kind of mishap whenever they roll a '1' on a spell/cantrip attack or an enemy rolls a '20' on a save versus one of their spells/cantrips (again, these tables could be generic to the class or tailored to each subclass).

I’d enjoy most of that, though I’d throw in some spells at-Will as well, and I’d never play a class with wild magic type stuff built into the base class.

 

[Quickleaf]

I’d enjoy most of that, though I’d throw in some spells at-Will as well, and I’d never play a class with wild magic type stuff built into the base class.

I totally get that. There are other ways to implement the concept of "magic that you barely control", such as making it the player's choice whether they want to "overchannel" (or whatever) and risk a magical mishap.

Like all my (admittedly unorthodox) ideas for the sorcerer, that idea of "magic that you barely control" stems directly from certain parts of the flavor text for the Sorcerer class. Note the bolded sections below to see my inspiration. For me, this flavor text is golden. It is so evocative. It's like the Sorcerer's magic has a life of its own! But then the Sorcerer mechanics feels like a very conservative implementation of mostly more of the same.

Sorcerers carry a magical birthright conferred upon them by an exotic bloodline, some otherworldly influence, or exposure to unknown cosmic forces. One can’t study sorcery as one learns a language, any more than one can learn to live a legendary life. No one chooses sorcery; the power chooses the sorcerer.

Raw Magic​

Magic is a part of every sorcerer, suffusing body, mind, and spirit with a latent power that waits to be tapped. Some sorcerers wield magic that springs from an ancient bloodline infused with the magic of dragons. Others carry a raw, uncontrolled magic within them, a chaotic storm that manifests in unexpected ways.

The appearance of sorcerous powers is wildly unpredictable. Some draconic bloodlines produce exactly one sorcerer in every generation, but in other lines of descent every individual is a sorcerer. Most of the time, the talents of sorcery appear as apparent flukes. Some sorcerers can’t name the origin of their power, while others trace it to strange events in their own lives. The touch of a demon, the blessing of a dryad at a baby’s birth, or a taste of the water from a mysterious spring might spark the gift of sorcery. So too might the gift of a deity of magic, exposure to the elemental forces of the Inner Planes or the maddening chaos of Limbo, or a glimpse into the inner workings of reality.

Sorcerers have no use for the spellbooks and ancient tomes of magic lore that wizards rely on, nor do they rely on a patron to grant their spells as warlocks do. By learning to harness and channel their own inborn magic, they can discover new and staggering ways to unleash that power.

Unexplained Powers​

Sorcerers are rare in the world, and it’s unusual to find a sorcerer who is not involved in the adventuring life in some way. People with magical power seething in their veins soon discover that the power doesn’t like to stay quiet. A sorcerer’s magic wants to be wielded, and it has a tendency to spill out in unpredictable ways if it isn’t called on.

Sorcerers often have obscure or quixotic motivations driving them to adventure. Some seek a greater understanding of the magical force that infuses them, or the answer to the mystery of its origin. Others hope to find a way to get rid of it, or to unleash its full potential. Whatever their goals, sorcerers are every bit as useful to an adventuring party as wizards, making up for a comparative lack of breadth in their magical knowledge with enormous flexibility in using the spells they know.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I totally get that. There are other ways to implement the concept of "magic that you barely control", such as making it the player's choice whether they want to "overchannel" (or whatever) and risk a magical mishap.

Like all my (admittedly unorthodox) ideas for the sorcerer, that idea of "magic that you barely control" stems directly from certain parts of the flavor text for the Sorcerer class. Note the bolded sections below to see my inspiration. For me, this flavor text is golden. It is so evocative. It's like the Sorcerer's magic has a life of its own! But then the Sorcerer mechanics feels like a very conservative implementation of mostly more of the same.

Yeah I really like the idea of being able to use sorcery points to upcast spells for effectively cheaper than anyone else can.
That isn’t compatible with your ideas, of course, but it would represent having more juice that learned spellcasters.