D&D (2024) bring back the pig faced orcs for 6th edition, change up hobgoblins & is there a history of the design change

[TwoSix]

I do think it's better. My players think it's better. They enjoy discussing the morality of their actions, and if they are actually the good guys or not. And it's exactly why "creatures from the Abyss" are boring opponents.

Sure, but that's an aesthetic judgment as to what you enjoy. There's nothing wrong with not wanting moral quandaries in your game.

 

[BookTenTiger]

I'm not getting into this other than to say that skin color will never be a factor in whether a creature is evil. I get tired of that argument, but it's pointless to get into the discussion on this forum.

Oofta, if you don't want to have this discussion... Then don't drag this thread down into it. There's no rule saying that you have to keep bringing up these points. There's plenty else to talk about here.

Back to the topic of orcs...

I've always wanted to run an all monstrous lineage game. The players would be goblins, orcs, hobgoblins, etc. It would be fun if there were a few types of orcs: the Warcrafty green-humans-with-tusks, and also the pink pig people. Orcs are already depicted as temperamental and hard to get along with, I love the idea of orcs themselves having the "are we pig people or not" debate!

 

[Mind of tempest]

I just get tired of the idea that only fiends can be evil. I think it should be a campaign level decision with emphasis on alignments are just defaults that can and should be tweaked to fit. On the other hand, orcs in my world do effectively have fiendish origin in that they come from Jotunheim which is the realm of giants, evil gods and, in my campaign, fiends.

have you tried ripping off the darkspawn as they sound exactly like what you want?

 

[Oofta]

have you tried ripping off the darkspawn as they sound exactly like what you want?

Changing the name (or origin) doesn't really change anything. It goes back to the same issue from my initial response - no matter what creature we come up with, someone will have an issue with them filling in the role of adversaries. I don't think it really matters much what label we put on our completely imaginary creatures, the only reason we have anything other than humans and animals is because they fill a role in the game, are evocative of some aspect of what we respect or fear.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Changing the name (or origin) doesn't really change anything. It goes back to the same issue from my initial response - no matter what creature we come up with, someone will have an issue with them filling in the role of adversaries. I don't think it really matters much what label we put on our completely imaginary creatures, the only reason we have anything other than humans and animals is because they fill a role in the game, are evocative of some aspect of what we respect or fear.

no, the darkspawn are well evil in the way a plague zombie is evil only if they want to kill and consume everything and had weapons and armour.
They reproduce in a horrible way, literally have no souls and are just an army of monsters, they do not raise families or build things aside from that one time but draining a guys blood to make murder machines people is not a thing most people would agree to.

here is a spoiler video the explain note will possibly be disturbing watch at own risk.

 

[S'mon]

Here is how I tell a hero from a villain. A hero is constantly asking themselves "am I doing the right thing?" A villain doesn't. A villain knows they are doing the right thing.

Best line ever!

 

[Stormonu]

No, they were pretty much goblins, but had random features (much like the fomor):

"The bakemonos are cousins to the western goblin and in characteristics and habits are quite similar to these creatures. However, unlike the goblin, the bakemonos come in a variety of different shapes and sizes. No two creatures are alike. Skin color varies from brilliant orange and red to deep blue. Physical features range from small stunted wings, hooves, fur, scales, huge noses, feathers, oversized ears, and hunched bodies. The referee should feel free to use his imagination in describing these creatures."

On a side note, I really like to have my goblins with no two looking alike - like the goblins from Labyrinth, which many are based on 60’s and 70’s art from a few artists whose names I cannot recall.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Here is how I tell a hero from a villain. A hero is constantly asking themselves "am I doing the right thing?" A villain doesn't. A villain knows they are doing the right thing.

now that can't be right I question that all the time and I am clearly the villain of at least the people I interact with stories.

 

[Umbran]

It ignores that soldiers in the Nazi army were there for a whole host of reasons.

Mod Note:
@Oofta If you thought an argument based in Nazi-apology was going to fly, you were extremely wrong.

Don't go there again.

Hello.

Spoiler

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And, @Paul Farquhar the fact that he brought in an offensive argument does not give you leave to make the thing personal.

Folks, if this is the quality of discussion we are going to get on this topic, the topic will end. Please apply rather more forethought and good judgement than these two did.

 

[Voadam]

On a side note, I really like to have my goblins with no two looking alike - like the goblins from Labyrinth, which many are based on 60’s and 70’s art from a few artists whose names I cannot recall.

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Brian Froud