Bringing common sense to AoOs

[Primitive Screwhead]

Aha.. AoO against objects and stuff...

My bad, I misunderstood you. It looked like you were stating that you should get 1 AoO attempt per round, which could be used for things like activating magic items (a SA) or striking a door (also a SA).

But I now understand that you wonder why, in attacking a helpless defender, you do not get to use this AoO against them.

I think the only reason for it would be game balance. Imagine being a PC who is attacked by a team of bad guys. One is spell caster, the other a high Dex character with Guantlets of Ogre power and Power Attack.
Round one, you get Held, second bad guy opens up on you with 6 power attack strikes..1 normal and 5 AoO's from his Combat Reflexes feat......
You are dead.
Of course, this differs little from a CdG.. except that the rest of the party can't do anything to stop it.

Perhaps the assumption is that, when striking a helpless character, you take some extra time to ensure that the strike does the best damage.. hence the +4 to hit.

I think, if you allowed AoO's against helpless characters, the PC's would be on the receiving end of the rule too many times.

JMHO

 

[myradale]

Just a clarfication.
When making AoO with the combat reflexes feat you only get the ONE AoO for each situation that deserves it. If a monster is running away (not withdrawing) and moves through 2 of your threatened spaces, you only get the 1 AoO, not two. Specifically mentioned in the feat description.
So assuming you got an AoO for a helpless defender, you'd only get the one each round.
As for GETTING that AoO, I can't see any logic in NOT recieving an AoO when you are helpless, it certainly is more "distracting" than drinking a potion. But D&D has never really been about logic... this is just one of those things that they've done to balance out gmaeplay.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Yeah, I like to use Cleave on the fallen foe!

This is purely a game play experience issue. There is nothing wrong logically with granting AoOs against inanimate objects or an opponent who just fell unconscious. As a practical matter it would slow down play and cause higher PC mortality; the net effect would be less fun.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Just a clarfication.
When making AoO with the combat reflexes feat you only get the ONE AoO for each situation that deserves it. If a monster is running away (not withdrawing) and moves through 2 of your threatened spaces, you only get the 1 AoO, not two. Specifically mentioned in the feat description.

But if he moves through a threatened space and then drinks a potion, he incurs two AoOs (assuming I have Combat Reflexes), because while he was on guard for most of the round, he left two gaps in his defences.

If he's helpless beside me, he has gaps in his defences at those same two moments in time... and at every other instant in the round.

-Hyp.

 

[tomBitonti]

Cost of AOO

The underlying assumption seems to be that if you are actively engaged with
an opponent then certain actions taken by that opponent should make them
more vulnerable to your attacks. That is, AOO's make sense -- if you are
already concentrating on attacking a particular opponent.

If combat were simultaneous, this could be done by lowering the opponents
AC. (Your opponent quaffs a potion? Their AC just dropped by 4.) Even
with the the current round-by-round rules, you could almost do this, except
that the async movement messes it up. (You opponent runs past you,
dropping their AC by 4. That's nice, but by the time you get to take your
attack, they are way over there.)

What I have a problem with is cleave on an AOO. I summon a kobold
next to my allied 10 level fighter with cleave and move the kobold to allow
the fighter an AOO. The kobold almost definitely drops, and the fighter
cleaves into the baddies. Or have we been playing this wrong?

One day we'll be able to get table sized touch screens that will serve as
battle mats and that will allow combat to be done as discrete event
simulations ...

 

[FireLance]

I am frankly considering a house-rule that you can always make as many AOOs as you are eligible to make against a helpless defender, but you have to make your attack rolls normally and you cannot perform a CDG. In other words, you make a series of rapid attacks instead of taking time to line up your attack perfectly. The flip side to this house-rule is that you cannot make AOOs when you are performing a CDG.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

What I have a problem with is cleave on an AOO. I summon a kobold
next to my allied 10 level fighter with cleave and move the kobold to allow
the fighter an AOO. The kobold almost definitely drops, and the fighter
cleaves into the baddies. Or have we been playing this wrong?

That is certainly correct according to the RAW. Personally, I despise it working that way. If you want to start a giant argument, post a new thread where you ask for adjudication advice for AoO + Cleave + illusions...

 

[irdeggman]

A character can make 1 AoO per foe in a round up to his full allotment of AoO (depends on feats available). A character can not make more than 1 AoO on a single foe in a single round, regardless of the feats he has.

This comes into play when a PC (with a lot of Hit points/good AC) moves up to take the AoO from a foe so that another PC can move in and take an action that would otherwise generate an AoO. Gotta love teamwork

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

A character can make 1 AoO per foe in a round up to his full allotment of AoO (depends on feats available). A character can not make more than 1 AoO on a single foe in a single round, regardless of the feats he has.

Though this changed in 3.5, where you can take multiple AoO's on an opponent given multiple, different opportunities (and presuming Combat Reflexes).

 

[Frostmarrow]

Wasn't AoOs introduced only as to set up the flank-mechanic? Thinking about it, without AoOs it would be redundantly simple to get flank opportunites every round. So by all means, scrap AoOs but remember to scrap sneak attack at the same time.