Building Eberron (Using non-Eberron books)

[Bront]

Another thought, Should we use Fractional BAB and Saves? Seems like a potentialy good alternate rule.

 

[Bront]

You don't like Rayni, Bront?

I'd say definitely yes on Warlock and Beguiler. Dragon Shaman I wouldn't put into most campaigns, but in Eberron it seems to make more sense than usual. Wu Jen, nah. Duskblade maybe.

Not sure on = I have no opinion one way or the other, Rayni is fine

 

[Rystil Arden]

My few cents:

Spikes: Errata'd in Compendium not to stack with other threat-range doubling abilities. Was that your beef, RA, or something else?

Orbs: I see why they have no save and SR, but I doesn't mean I have to like them. The *theory* is that they are conjured balls of stuff, so SR doesn't apply since the material already exists (just like Melf's acid arrow--no SR). Saves's don't apply to the damage because its a roll to hit spell, which are usually no save (again, Melf's). Problem is, things get out of hand. Orb of acid---okay, I see that. Its just Melfs-- or Melfs++. Fire? Maybe. Cold? Maybe. Electricity? Errr... stretching it a bit. Force? Huh? Sonic? WFT? For real, tangible energy types, I might leave them as is, but Force and Sonic, SR would apply.

Spikes is still overpowered compared to similar damage-dealing spells.

As for the Orbs--I understand the theory too, but the theory for the Orb of Force is untenable. It's a Force! You can't conjure a Force! Also, I don't care if they made the best theory ever--if it breaks the game, it breaks the game (and it breaks the game). The thing about Melf's is that it is weak and can be resisted easily with Acid Resist because it is over time. These guys are all over the map and some have no energy resist (Orb of Force, I'm looking at you). If the caster has appreciable Ranged Touch attack rolls, you could be a Great Wyrm Gold Dragon and you're going to be killed by Orb of Force if enough people throw them at you.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Another thought, Should we use Fractional BAB and Saves? Seems like a potentialy good alternate rule.

We don't need it if we aren't using gestalt, I think.

 

[stonegod]

Definately like in Eberron: Scout, Swashbuckler, Spirit Shamen, Favored Soul, Knight, Spellthief

No beef there, though Spellthief is just odd to me.

Not sure on: Wu Jen, Beguiler, Dragon Shamen, Duskblade, Warlock

Can't speak for balance purposes, but for flavor purpose I have no problem with the last four. Beguilier is a trickster caster, which fits all the espionage flavor. Dragon Shaman seems a good fit for some kobold tribes and for Argonessen. Khyber-tained or Fiend-tainted warlocks seems flavor-wise good for me (course, I'm biased as I'm playing one). Not sold on the wu-jen.

Don't care for, but could be talked into: Hexblade

Again, I can see it flavor wise. Either go with the Player's Guide version (possibly touched by the Shadow/Traveller) or one similar to my hexblade's (training from a special gift).

Don't like: Warmage

Flavor-wise, I can see them from Cyran or Aundair academies, the former not exstant anymore, of course.

Don't see in Eberron: Samuri, Ninja, Shujenja

You already know I agree on you here.

These are flavor, not mechanics, judgements. YMMV

 

[Bront]

Definitely agree with that! I may be the only approved Divine caster right now, but when we approve new Divine spells, they are not going to just magically all appear on a character's spell list. That just isn't fair to anyone, most of all the people who don't own the books and try to play these classes. You pay to add spells to your list.

I was thinking more Wizard, but yeah, i can understand that for classes that have a full spell list to chose from. Sorcerers are free to select from whatever I would think.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Beguilier is a trickster caster, which fits all the espionage flavor. Dragon Shaman seems a good fit for some kobold tribes and for Argonessen. Khyber-tained or Fiend-tainted warlocks seems flavor-wise good for me (course, I'm biased as I'm playing one). Not sold on the wu-jen.

This is exactly my opinion on those classes too--looks like we agree. And yes, all flavour concerns.

 

[Bront]

No beef there, though Spellthief is just odd to me.

Can't speak for balance purposes, but for flavor purpose I have no problem with the last four. Beguilier is a trickster caster, which fits all the espionage flavor. Dragon Shaman seems a good fit for some kobold tribes and for Argonessen. Khyber-tained or Fiend-tainted warlocks seems flavor-wise good for me (course, I'm biased as I'm playing one). Not sold on the wu-jen.

Again, I can see it flavor wise. Either go with the Player's Guide version (possibly touched by the Shadow/Traveller) or one similar to my hexblade's (training from a special gift).

Flavor-wise, I can see them from Cyran or Aundair academies, the former not exstant anymore, of course.

You already know I agree on you here.

These are flavor, not mechanics, judgements. YMMV

I don't like the Warmage balance wise, not flavor wise. Think they're a bit too powerful/walking artilery, but I could be talked into allowing them potentialy.

The Wu jen is the only one I can see, as they are casters that relate to the elements. I see them as Arcane Casters in the Reaches. Other than the Knight, I don't have much experience with the PHBII classes.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I don't like the Warmage balance wise, not flavor wise. Think they're a bit too powerful/walking artilery, but I could be talked into allowing them potentialy.

The Wu jen is the only one I can see, as they are casters that relate to the elements. I see them as Arcane Casters in the Reaches. Other than the Knight, I don't have much experience with the PHBII classes.

The PHII classes are all solidly balanced, pretty much.

However, the Dragon Shaman is just a weird concept.

The Knight's Challenge should be a Mind-Affecting Supernatural ability, or else it shouldn't work on a villain who has watched the PCs fight, knows that attacking the Knight has led to the downfall of all opponents, knows that he will die if he attacks the Knight, and realises that the Knight isn't a dangerous opponent unless you are dumb enough to attack him.

The Duskblade is a good Fighter/Mage base class--much better than the Hexblade for that, though I like the Hexblade flavour better.

The Beguiler is completely awesome. Everything the Enchanter specialist Wizard barred from Evocation wishes he could be and a solid social character.

 

[Bront]

I like the mind effecting supernatural ability. A friend was arguing about how it would work against chaotic characters, that explains it.

If you're OK with all the PHB 2 classes, that's good enough for me.

Once we get some of this hacked out (maybe even tonight), I'll start an accepted Rules thread to sticky that talks about what books, and what things from the books we allow.