Burning Wheel

[Crothian]

Any check out or have any expereince with Burning Wheel ? I'm slowly reading through the revised rules and it has some interesting parts to it. For those not familar it is a fantasy game. It uses dice pools of d6's . One interesting thing is that character have to succeed at difficulyt challenges for their skills to improve. So, not only do you have to swing your sword to get better at swinging your sword, you have to be successful at it. And that applies to all skills it seems.

I like the basic character generation which along with the usual suspects of stats and skills and things also asks for character goals and simple behavior. This is something I'm going to be stealing for my next game to aid character generation.

So far I like it and it's going on the list of games I want to see in action and not all games I read actually make it that far. It seems like it is versatile enough to handle most fantasy settings. So far I'm impressed.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

One interesting thing is that character have to succeed at difficulyt challenges for their skills to improve. So, not only do you have to swing your sword to get better at swinging your sword, you have to be successful at it. And that applies to all skills it seems.

I passionately hate - with a passion surpassing all others - learn-by-doing systems in computer RPGs.

I can't imagine what the thought process was to bring such a bone-headed mechanic to the PnP world.

Truth be told, putting a DM in charge of the process does ameliorate some of the issues I have with the basic mechanic (i.e., if you have a character focused in herb lore, the DM can more easily add herb-based challenges to the game than a computer can), but otherwise I'm pretty stumped.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I can't imagine what the thought process was to bring such a bone-headed mechanic to the PnP world.

Just a friendly FYI, Chaosium's Runequest has been doing this for decades.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Just a friendly FYI, Chaosium's Runequest has been doing this for decades.

Which doesn't make it any better, IMHO.

For the record, yes, I know there are scads of games out there that do this (each attempt at a skill gains a check mark, increase your skill when you have X checkmarks, etc.).

I could just never figure out why this was desirable.

 

[fredramsey]

There are a number of concepts in Burning Wheel that bowled me over.

A characters background, beliefs, etc. are actually part of the mechanics. I am unable to go into detail as to exactly how, as I have only read the book once, but it is a brilliant concept.

The learning by doing is fantastic. Especially since you learn not only from your successes, but your failures. Simply testing your ability increases it.

This in NOT in any way a rules lite game. Let me get that out right up front.

But it is a fairly fresh way of looking at gaming. I would recommend a read for anyone who GMs any system. You'll find some concept in there you can use or benefit from, unless you are already the greatest GM in the world.

One idea that struck me in particular was the "Let it Ride" rule. Here's an example:

At night, a character wants to sneak past a guard at the gate of a castle, move across the courtyard, and up to a door.

In most systems, this would require numerous rolls. In Burning Wheel, you are encouraged to do it with one.

Stealth roll succeeds:

GM - "Ok. You move from deep shadow to deep shadow, like a cat. As you approach the sleeping guard, you step on a twig, which lets out a loud 'snap'! The guard rouses slightly, then begins to snore louder."

Player - "I go up and pat him on his head and keep going."

GM - "He mumbles in his sleep. 'Yes dear. I'll milk the cow.'"

(Much laughter)

GM - "The dark, inky shadows swallow you up as you dask lightly across the courtyard. You reach the door. A small, yellow pool of light forms at the base of the door, from the light below it. What do you do?"

Stealth roll fails:

GM - "Ok. You move from deep shadow to deep shadow, like a cat. As you approach the sleeping guard, you step on a twig, which lets out a loud 'snap'! The guard bolts upright, staring into the darkness. 'Who goes there?' he shouts. 'To arms! We have an intruder!'"

The difference here is that the roll is used to direct the STORY in two different directions. If you have someone make 5 Stealth checks, so the book says, you're only trying to make them fail. If the guard has a better chance of noticing, give him a higher score. But don't make 5 rolls where one would suffice.

This is only one of the fantastic concepts in this game.

 

[Crothian]

I could just never figure out why this was desirable.

Some people like training rules and this is a variation of that. In the rules one can train to increase skills as well. The character sheet is designed to help keep track of all of this and with many fewer skills then d20 to worry about it does not seem to be a burden.

 

[Crothian]

I really like the lifepoaths for character creation. It really allows a character of mutiple interests to be easily created. I also like that these grant age increases and that age helps determine stats of the character.

 

[Glyfair]

I have one of the numbered sets from the first edition. I picked it up out of curiosity.

In my opinion, there isn't anything really innovative here. Everything in here I've seen in 80's RPGs. Things he focuses on, I didn't like the first time around. I also found his description of why he was doing things to contradict things he actually did.

It's been a while since I read the game, I'm vague on details.

 

[Paka]

I have been running a series of Burning Wheel one-shots in preperation for the campaign I am set to run, which begins tomorrow.

Burning Wheel is a fantastic fantasy RPG with the best versions of Tolkien-inspired Elves, Dwarves and Orcs that I have ever seen. The humans have a gritty George R.R. Martin vibe to 'em.

Beliefs as a tool to really define what is important about the character to the player have been really great but they also allow a GM to create a one-shot in which the players are pitted against one another with pre-made P.C.'s with Beliefs and Instincts that are, in essence, AIMED at one another like loaded drama-guns.

If you have any questions about the game, let me know.

 

[Paka]

I have one of the numbered sets from the first edition. I picked it up out of curiosity.

In my opinion, there isn't anything really innovative here. Everything in here I've seen in 80's RPGs. Things he focuses on, I didn't like the first time around. I also found his description of why he was doing things to contradict things he actually did.

It's been a while since I read the game, I'm vague on details.

I have found the revision to be a head and shoulders above the classic edition. It ain't for everyoen and here on ENworld, we're in the bosom of d20-ville, so if it ain't your cup of tea, I hear ya and we can leave it at that.