(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
It's an eight-year old post. I wonder if we can get the OP there to edit it.
Well at least it's clear
D&D 5E By the book alignment, in a simple, satisfying manner
It's an eight-year old post. I wonder if we can get the OP there to edit it.
Well at least it's clear
howandwhy99
Adventurer
Alignment is often descriptive, but there are classes, noticeably Paladin, which have abilities tied to Alignment status. When used as an entire system, and actual part of the game, alignment covers behavior. That's a huge portion of the game, right?
Players take actions with their PCs and Alignment is tracked. If Alignment is going to mean anything, learning what one's alignment is must be possible within the game world. You should be able to hunt down a cleric you trust, have them Detect Alignment on you and then tell you the result. Whether they tell you the truth or not is another thing. Knowing one's alignment as a Paladin is so vital that class has Know Alignment as an at-will ability (or used to) sort of like how the Cleric can call on the power of their beliefs whenever they want (i.e. "Turning").
The world treats the character based upon their reputation and current behavior. But not just that, the world, including NPCs/monsters in it, treats everything according to their alignment too. It's not just the PCs Alignment and behavior that matter. And it can get really complex quite fast depending on where you go and what you do. That's a good thing. That's gameable and fun.
It might seem odd that there is an answer to the question "What happens if I'm charmed and I take actions to leave my alignment?" has a definite answer in D&D, but that's part of what makes it a game. We can learn through play the consequences of actions and extrapolate from them for future play.
As for "Detect Alignment" ruining mysteries, I can only say there is a spectrum of Alignment running around in most any sizable population. And "Detect Alignment" works like "Detect Magic". Only the caster can know for sure (having been told privately). Even a Paladin is in a He said, She said situation. Imagine a powerful divination that allow you to determine who really DID kill the victim? Is that still proof?
Players take actions with their PCs and Alignment is tracked. If Alignment is going to mean anything, learning what one's alignment is must be possible within the game world. You should be able to hunt down a cleric you trust, have them Detect Alignment on you and then tell you the result. Whether they tell you the truth or not is another thing. Knowing one's alignment as a Paladin is so vital that class has Know Alignment as an at-will ability (or used to) sort of like how the Cleric can call on the power of their beliefs whenever they want (i.e. "Turning").
The world treats the character based upon their reputation and current behavior. But not just that, the world, including NPCs/monsters in it, treats everything according to their alignment too. It's not just the PCs Alignment and behavior that matter. And it can get really complex quite fast depending on where you go and what you do. That's a good thing. That's gameable and fun.
It might seem odd that there is an answer to the question "What happens if I'm charmed and I take actions to leave my alignment?" has a definite answer in D&D, but that's part of what makes it a game. We can learn through play the consequences of actions and extrapolate from them for future play.
As for "Detect Alignment" ruining mysteries, I can only say there is a spectrum of Alignment running around in most any sizable population. And "Detect Alignment" works like "Detect Magic". Only the caster can know for sure (having been told privately). Even a Paladin is in a He said, She said situation. Imagine a powerful divination that allow you to determine who really DID kill the victim? Is that still proof?
Which version? Not in either version of AD&D, where they have Detect Evil at will, but don't get know alignment until gaining access to 2nd level cleric spells 11th level. And the clear implication of the Detect Evil ability is that it is to be used detecting other's evil:
The benefits of a paladin are . . . Detect evil at up to 60' distance, as often as desired, but only when the paladin is concentrating on determining the presence of evil and seeking to detect it in the right general direction. (PHB p 22)
There is no suggestion that the paladin is meant to be using Detect Evil for self examination.
It would be very odd indeed if a class whose members immediately fall upon the commission of an evil act needed "detect evil" to see whether their overall alignment had drifted to evil, as the mere fact that they could still cast the spell or use the ability would prove it hadn't.
On a broader note, though, I think Kamikaze Midget is exactly right. A DM who wants to use alignment in his campaign needs to first decide the purpose it will serve in his campaign. Is it a useful shorthand that provides insight into character behavior (sort of a "thieves' cant" for RPGers)? Is it a way to know where characters fit in to the universal war between the cosmic embodiments of good/evil/law/chaos and their mortal servants? Is it a way to facilitate mind-reading spells? Or is it a "brand" that once chosen ought not be changed without severe mechanical repercussions to the character(s) in question?
Once a DM has the answers to these questions, he needs to implement alignment accordingly. If he wants to run a campaign where alignment has no mechanical impact but is nevertheless important because freedom/order and altruism/cruelty are defining issues in his campaign, then it's enough for me as the DM to treat good/evil/law/chaos as "factions" and gauge each character's allegiance to those factions in much the same way that a DM in an alignment-less campaign would assess a character's loyalty to Helm or the Harpers. On the other hand, if he wants alignment in his game so he can define what players must do in any given circumstance to keep their class features, then alignment is going to need to play a much more obvious and visible role and the DM needs to prepare his players accordingly so they will understand the stakes involved in holding and keeping any given alignment.
On a broader note, though, I think Kamikaze Midget is exactly right. A DM who wants to use alignment in his campaign needs to first decide the purpose it will serve in his campaign. Is it a useful shorthand that provides insight into character behavior (sort of a "thieves' cant" for RPGers)? Is it a way to know where characters fit in to the universal war between the cosmic embodiments of good/evil/law/chaos and their mortal servants? Is it a way to facilitate mind-reading spells? Or is it a "brand" that once chosen ought not be changed without severe mechanical repercussions to the character(s) in question?
Once a DM has the answers to these questions, he needs to implement alignment accordingly. If he wants to run a campaign where alignment has no mechanical impact but is nevertheless important because freedom/order and altruism/cruelty are defining issues in his campaign, then it's enough for me as the DM to treat good/evil/law/chaos as "factions" and gauge each character's allegiance to those factions in much the same way that a DM in an alignment-less campaign would assess a character's loyalty to Helm or the Harpers. On the other hand, if he wants alignment in his game so he can define what players must do in any given circumstance to keep their class features, then alignment is going to need to play a much more obvious and visible role and the DM needs to prepare his players accordingly so they will understand the stakes involved in holding and keeping any given alignment.
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My preferred approach to alignment would be to dispense with it as a measure of character behavior, and instead use it as if it were a keyword. If you are Lawful Good, that means you are spiritually linked to the cosmic forces of Law and Good; it says nothing about you as a person. A warlock who's sealed a pact with Demogorgon may try to use her demon-granted powers in a good cause, but she's still Chaotic Evil because she's linked to an Abyssal power.
Ideals, Flaws, and Bonds are a much better way to describe character personality. Leave it to them. Alignment works better as a mechanical element.
Ideals, Flaws, and Bonds are a much better way to describe character personality. Leave it to them. Alignment works better as a mechanical element.
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