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C&Ds for Online D&D 5E Character Generators

Ed Friedlander reports that WotC has asked him to remove his D&D character generators. Ed ran the generators at his site, Pathguy.com, including a D&D 5E character generator. His Pathfinder RPG character generator is still running. Thanks to Slayyne for the scoop (who also reports that at least one other site has also closed). [Update: while the actual request has not been shared, others have reported that these are very amicable requests].

Ed Friedlander reports that WotC has asked him to remove his D&D character generators. Ed ran the generators at his site, Pathguy.com, including a D&D 5E character generator. His Pathfinder RPG character generator is still running. Thanks to Slayyne for the scoop (who also reports that at least one other site has also closed). [Update: while the actual request has not been shared, others have reported that these are very amicable requests].

You can see his closing note here.

"After almost two decades, Wizards of the Coast has asked me to remove my online character generators. I appreciate the many people who have written and thanked me for my work, and I hope you will continue to enjoy the hobby.

As a physician and gamer, I've supported and defended the hobby, and helped concerned families understand its value.

The "Dungeons and Dragons" phenomenon has encouraged young people to study other cultures. It is a game in which people work together to accomplish a meaningful goal. Characters even define themselves in terms of their good morals and their ethics. On one level, it simulates the spiritual warfare described in the Christian scriptures and in the Arthurian legends on which the game is based. I am proud that I was able to make a contribution.

My generator for Pathfinder will of course remain online. Click here for more information about this role-playing game.

May your dice come up 20s.

Ed Friedlander MD
"

Back in November, the D&D Tools website suffered a similar fate, as have a couple of spellcard websites. While WotC appears to be largely easygoing as far as fan creations are concerned, they do take action when content from their products is copied or distributed.

Ed's character generator created characters by selecting a number of options, and output a character sheet similar to below. I'm not all that familiar with it, so I don't know what text, if any, it may have borrowed from the official rules.

As yet, there's no license (Open Gaming or otherwise) for D&D 5th Edition (although WotC does intend to do so), although a number of publishers have published books anyway using the older Open Gaming License for D&D 3E and 3.5.

What is interesting to hear is that some people who have received such requests describe them as very amicable. Toxic Rat says "Speaking from personal experience, I received a very nice email asking that I take down particular content owned by WotC. No threats, no warnings of legal action, just a request to honor their copyright." That's great to hear.

dwarfey.jpg

 

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delericho

Legend
I've always assumed the bottom line with PDFs was piracy concerns...

When they pulled the PDFs a few years ago, the stated reason was indeed piracy concerns. In particular, someone had put a legally-purchased (watermarked) PDF of, IIRC, "Arcane Power II" on one of the torrent sites, and it had been downloaded some thousands of times.

(Note: the initial purchase of the PDF was done legally. Obviously, putting it up for further distribution was not.)

It's worth noting that at that time they also required the vendors of PDFs to stop allowing further downloads of those PDFs. There was a grace period of about a week for this; unfortunately, I was on holiday for just over a week when this all went down, and so lost some (very few) PDFs that I had purchased but not yet downloaded.

A couple of years ago, they changed their policy, and now allow PDFs sales again through a single vendor. Plus, the PDFs that are now being made available are better than the older ones, which is nice.

They haven't, as yet, made the core rulebooks for most editions available for download (IIRC, B/X is available, as is the Rules Cyclopedia, but that's all). Given that they're selling PDFs at all, the reason for this is very unlikely to be piracy concerns, so what Morrus says about vendors wanting a delay makes sense. (Note that printed core books for 1st, 2nd, 3e, 4e, and 5e are all easily available in stores; B/X and the Rules Cyclopedia are pretty much the only ones that aren't.) But, AFAIK, WotC have never put out any official word as to why.
 

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MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
Why aren't Paizo hands similarly tied?

One of the chief differences between Paizo and Wizards is that Paizo came up through magazines, then an online subscription program, and finally into the big time with brick'n'mortar stores. Meanwhile, Wizards started with brick'n'mortar, and then went into online & magazines. They're very different models.

And although you might initially assume that Wizards' concerns with brick'n'mortar are RPG-based, this isn't the case. Instead, Wizards begin and end with where they actually make their money: Magic: the Gathering. While we grouse and grumble about how they run D&D, on the other side of the building they run one of the most successful game products in decades. Magic is *huge*. And it's getting bigger. Mark Rosewater said in his review of 2014 that the Theros set was the biggest selling set of all time (that's the 2014 big set). It's generally believed that the current set - Khans of Tarkhir - has sold even more.

One of the reasons Wizards does so well with Magic is that they understand very well how to design sets, but - even more - they understand how to support the game. And Magic lives and dies by how many people are playing it. I have seen CCG after CCG wither and die, because people weren't playing it any more. For a CCG to be successful, it needs a lot of people playing it, and it needs them to be able to find each other. And Wizards identified, entirely correctly, that the brick'n'mortar game store was the place where most Magic players would be able to meet up. And so they support them - significantly.

The other side of this is that a lot of game stores wouldn't be open today if it weren't for Magic and the two or three other CCGs that have done well. The income from CCGs tends to be more reliable and more significant that most other gaming products (well, at least the ones you can buy in a game store... computer games are a different kettle of fish!)

So, Wizards - just through Magic - has a very strong desire to see brick'n'mortar stores do well. And it goes into their handling of D&D as well. Their support of Organised Play has moved more and more towards supporting stores.

And that's where we are at the moment.

Cheers!
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
When they pulled the PDFs a few years ago, the stated reason was indeed piracy concerns. In particular, someone had put a legally-purchased (watermarked) PDF of, IIRC, "Arcane Power II" on one of the torrent sites, and it had been downloaded some thousands of times.

(Note: the initial purchase of the PDF was done legally. Obviously, putting it up for further distribution was not.)

Players Handbook 2, to be accurate:

http://icv2.com/articles/games/view/14690/wizards-sues-eight

The court filing even gave the names of the people charged at the time.
 

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
I really don't get this... if it is legally correct, then it is legal... if it is legal why do people care?

Because how legal it is is tangential to the argument? Despite the legality of it, it is about harassing well meaning fans providing a service that never detracted from Wizard's sales, wizard's themselves aren't providing, and it could actually help sales. I have open one of such outputs at hand (from 3.5) without the books to understand what it what it is not useful, I liked those generators they always helped with the math for equipment.
 

igwig2

First Post
The 5th edition D&D Character Generator has been saved off and is now at (content removed)- this has nothing to do with Ed Frielander, the website is available on the Internet Cache and was retrieved, saved and rebuilt. Please share this amongst as many gamers. I know for a fact that this website helps sell a TON of 5th Edition material, and some attorney shouldn't be able to stop our hobby.


please do not post material or links that violates someone's intellectual property
 
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Because how legal it is is tangential to the argument? Despite the legality of it, it is about harassing well meaning fans providing a service that never detracted from Wizard's sales, wizard's themselves aren't providing, and it could actually help sales. I have open one of such outputs at hand (from 3.5) without the books to understand what it what it is not useful, I liked those generators they always helped with the math for equipment.

what you don't seem to under stand (and I am not signaling you out I am using you as in everyone complaining about C&Ds) is that WotC doesn't block or C&D people who play by the rules... someone on this thread (Merric I think) used a casched version of the sight and confirmed that he was not useign the OGL... If the law says you can only drive 65mph, and you go 75mph complaining a cop pulled you over is wrong... he just did his job, he only pulled you over because you did something illegal... If they sent a legal C&D because someone was doing something illegal (again I think it was a page or two back someone confirmed they where) shouldn't you be mad at the person doing the illegal thing?
 

The 5th edition D&D Character Generator has been saved off and is now at REDACTED - this has nothing to do with Ed Frielander, the website is available on the Internet Cache and was retrieved, saved and rebuilt. Please share this amongst as many gamers. I know for a fact that this website helps sell a TON of 5th Edition material, and some attorney shouldn't be able to stop our hobby.
OMG!!!! why would someone take something that was legally requested taken down and put it up again... I hope who ever did it understands how wrong it is to not only break IP, but to flaunt it...

man, I feel like this entire hobby gets dirtier every day...I'm going to take a shower.
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
[MENTION=6790277]igwig2[/MENTION], could you please remove the link? If Ed willingly complied with the request, I'm pretty sure he himself wouldn't want others proliferating his work everywhere.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Can you give more insight into WotC's likely relationship with its retailers and how that impacts digital? Is it the big box stores? Why aren't Paizo hands similarly tied? I know some of the other commenters have gotten out of hand, but you've genuinely piqued my interest.

I suspect because Paizo sells most of their products direct to the customer, while WOTC sells most of their products through distributors and retail.
 
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MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
what you don't seem to under stand (and I am not signaling you out I am using you as in everyone complaining about C&Ds) is that WotC doesn't block or C&D people who play by the rules... someone on this thread (Merric I think) used a casched version of the sight and confirmed that he was not useign the OGL... If the law says you can only drive 65mph, and you go 75mph complaining a cop pulled you over is wrong... he just did his job, he only pulled you over because you did something illegal... If they sent a legal C&D because someone was doing something illegal (again I think it was a page or two back someone confirmed they where) shouldn't you be mad at the person doing the illegal thing?

But you are not understanding this is an emotional response, completely unrelated to the legality of it. Now you say if we play by the rules we won't get into trouble, but what are the rules to play in this case? where do they draw the line? And this isn't as clear cut as you claim, the legality or not legality of pathguy's character creators lies on a grey area, yes they weren't following or using the OGL, but all the OGL is is a trade of certain fair use rights for the benefit of access to certain trademarks and not being demanded. As far as I know those character creators referenced mechanics (not subject to copyright) and indexed non-significant portions of a copyrighted text without reproducing trade dress (which as far as I know is fair use)
 

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