Campaign: Wussiest Gods Ever

[sukael]

One thing I need to figure out is where angels come from in the D&D mythology. They're not dead people--those are penitents. I suppose that they might come about the traditional way, with mommy angels and daddy angels, but that's not the vibe I get. Is this explained anywhere? Can gods somehow MAKE angels?

In the standard D&D cosmology - that is to say, Planescape - angels are a mix of those created through reproductive processes (most likely with chaotic good types), those who form out of the material of the plane itself or directly created by a god or other influence (for "other", there's a sanctified spell that causes Con damage and creates a lantern archon out of it), and those who start out as petitioners (souls of the dead who end up on the plane that matches their alignment) and work their way up.

(Incidentally, U_K's rules also give an LA to each stage of divinity, so you have a rough mark of what to put them up against.)

 

[sukael]

One of them has Alter Size, which will be interesting but not game-breaking (I hope).

"The deity’s Strength, Armor Class, attack bonus, and damage dealt with weapons changes according to the size the deity assumes." The greatest value of the ability is being able to basically get a much higher Strength (+32, from Medium to Colossal; +16 on attacks, and a 30-foot reach) or a higher AC (+8 size modifier when Fine, and another +8 to Dex, so +12 to AC) whenever the creature that has it likes. Still, it shouldn't hurt things too much as long as you're careful with opponent choice.

 

[tbug]

In the standard D&D cosmology - that is to say, Planescape - angels are a mix of those created through reproductive processes (most likely with chaotic good types), those who form out of the material of the plane itself or directly created by a god or other . . .

It's that "directly created by a god" that I'm trying to figure out. I know my players, and they're going to want to create angels (or other celestials/outsiders).

(Incidentally, U_K's rules also give an LA to each stage of divinity, so you have a rough mark of what to put them up against.)

Nice! Thanks!

 

[tbug]

"The deity’s Strength, Armor Class, attack bonus, and damage dealt with weapons changes according to the size the deity assumes." The greatest value of the ability is being able to basically get a much higher Strength (+32, from Medium to Colossal; +16 on attacks, and a 30-foot reach) or a higher AC (+8 size modifier when Fine, and another +8 to Dex, so +12 to AC) whenever the creature that has it likes. Still, it shouldn't hurt things too much as long as you're careful with opponent choice.

Right, and he'll still only have ten hit points (plus DR 15/epic), so no matter how big he is I can still take him out.

These guys seem to be creating characters with really tough single attacks, so I'm guessing that most of them will be able to take out one opponent every turn. Packs (or swarms) seem to be my friend here. Of course, their worshippers live in a cave so going Colossal down there would be a bad idea.

 

[sukael]

It's that "directly created by a god" that I'm trying to figure out. I know my players, and they're going to want to create angels (or other celestials/outsiders).

Have them take Leadership once they've got the levels for it, and have all their followers be celestials and outsiders (or lesser-ECL creatures with the celestial template, etc). Theme it as them using breathing life into followers and companions.

 

[tbug]

Have them take Leadership once they've got the levels for it, and have all their followers be celestials and outsiders (or lesser-ECL creatures with the celestial template, etc). Theme it as them using breathing life into followers and companions.

I'll keep that in mind. I was just hoping that in one of the bazillion D&D and/or d20 books someone would have actually explained where outsiders come from. I think that there have been hints that gods can create them, but I can't find anything concrete.

 

[sukael]

I'll keep that in mind. I was just hoping that in one of the bazillion D&D and/or d20 books someone would have actually explained where outsiders come from. I think that there have been hints that gods can create them, but I can't find anything concrete.

Like I said, Planescape is the best source - look at the AD&D 2e Planescape books if you can get your hands on any. Somebody who has a better grasp on the material (eg. Shemeska) could better tell you where to look.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Do they get the Standard Divine Array for ability scores, or the normal Mortal Wuss stats?

One thing I need to figure out is where angels come from in the D&D mythology. They're not dead people--those are penitents. I suppose that they might come about the traditional way, with mommy angels and daddy angels, but that's not the vibe I get. Is this explained anywhere? Can gods somehow MAKE angels?

They're outsiders, just like demons and devils (in fact, devils are fallen angels).

So I guess they have the same possibilities as other outsiders:

There is the usual way, by mating, like pretty much everything that lives.

I'd also think that petitioners will eventually be turned into celestials. After all, those tortured souls in hell will eventually become the lowest devils, and demons have something similar going on. So I'd think that a petitioner will, after he's soaked up enough good vibes from the plane, be transformed into an entry-level celestial. Those paladins and clerics and others who had a powerful good thing going on get the accelerated treatment.

 

[tbug]

Do they get the Standard Divine Array for ability scores, or the normal Mortal Wuss stats?

I varied that according to starting class. If they want to start as a commoner (since there was a henchman and a mule wrangler in the original group) then they get 32 points. If they're an NPC class they get 28, and if they're a PC class then they get 25.

What's the Standard Divine Array? That's not in the SRD.

They're outsiders, just like demons and devils (in fact, devils are fallen angels).

So I guess they have the same possibilities as other outsiders:

There is the usual way, by mating, like pretty much everything that lives.

So the theory is that there are little baby angels and demons and devils running around the outer planes?

I'd also think that petitioners will eventually be turned into celestials. After all, those tortured souls in hell will eventually become the lowest devils, and demons have something similar going on. So I'd think that a petitioner will, after he's soaked up enough good vibes from the plane, be transformed into an entry-level celestial. Those paladins and clerics and others who had a powerful good thing going on get the accelerated treatment.

Is this supported anywhere in canon, or just a logical extension of what's known?

Thanks for the help!

 

[sukael]

What's the Standard Divine Array? That's not in the SRD.

It's not in Deities and Demigods either... but I know I've seen a developer explain it as what they used for the standard deity stat array, +1 ability score point per divine rank.

Anybody know what the base numbers are?