Can any enemy be made to attack itself?

[pippenainteasy]

Coercion (charm)

At-Will
Trigger: An enemy attacks Pazuzu.
Attack (Immediate Interrupt): Close burst 10 (one enemy); +38 vs. Will
Hit: Pazuzu slides the target 1 square, then the target uses an at-will attack power of Pazuzu’s choice against the triggering enemy as a free action. If this attack hits, the triggering attack also takes a -4 penalty to the attack roll.


Does this sound like the triggering enemy could be made to attack itself in this case? Say its a melee 1 attack, attack gets cancelled (slid out of range), then attacks itself?

 

[the Jester]

Yeah, I don't see any reason why not... and that sounds like something that Pazuzu would do.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I think it could work, but that might not be RAI.

If this attack hits, the triggering attack also takes a -4 penalty to the attack roll.

I don't get this part though.

There's a ghost beholder in the MM3 with the power "Killing Thoughts" that specifically forces the target to attack itself, using clearer language.

 

[Mirtek]

I think this is not intended (as evidenced by other powers that clearly specify that attack self is allowed or powers that say that the creature can't attack anyone if no-one is within reach, despite a creature always being within it's own reach), but by RAW there is no reason it doesn't work.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

This issue also comes up with the Mage at-will "hypnotism".

As far as I've seen, it works by the rules, but there is not indication whether that's RAI.

 

[mo0man]

I think it could work, but that might not be RAI.



I don't get this part though.

There's a ghost beholder in the MM3 with the power "Killing Thoughts" that specifically forces the target to attack itself, using clearer language.

The point of this line is to decide whether the first attack hits or not. So, for clarification:
When someone attacks Pazuzu, they make to make the attack and ALSO slide 1 and attack someone with an at will. If the second attack hits, then the first attack (The initial one, the one against Pazuzu) takes a -4 penalty.

The activation of the ability does not automatically nullify the first attack, though I assume it would be trivial for Pazuzu to slide the attacker out of reach

Edit: Also, hi, this is my first post. Why didn't the quote pick up the first quotation?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The point of this line is to decide whether the first attack hits or not. So, for clarification:
When someone attacks Pazuzu, they make to make the attack and ALSO slide 1 and attack someone with an at will. If the second attack hits, then the first attack (The initial one, the one against Pazuzu) takes a -4 penalty.

The activation of the ability does not automatically nullify the first attack, though I assume it would be trivial for Pazuzu to slide the attacker out of reach

Yeah, confusing. It's two effects in one.

Edit: Also, hi, this is my first post. Why didn't the quote pick up the first quotation?

I don't know if we can do nested quotes here, but if we can, there's some special trick to it.

 

[Trit One-Ear]

The point of this line is to decide whether the first attack hits or not. So, for clarification:
When someone attacks Pazuzu, they make to make the attack and ALSO slide 1 and attack someone with an at will. If the second attack hits, then the first attack (The initial one, the one against Pazuzu) takes a -4 penalty.

You'll note the target of Pazuzu's attack is one enemy within the burst, not necessarily the target triggering the power. I think when this was written, it was intended to make the attacker's ally run over and smack them in an effort to save Pazuzu from the attack. However, I don't see any reason it couldn't be used as you said.

I personally would rule in line with the feeling over the power (coercing the allies of one's enemy to help save Pazuzu) rather than finding the holes in the RAW. It is a monster after all, so there's no player to feel short-changed.

Trit

 

[Octangula]

I don't know if we can do nested quotes here, but if we can, there's some special trick to it.

It's a design feature of vBulletin. You can still nest quotes, but you have to type them in manually.

As to the original question: As as obyrith, driving people mad is what Pazuzu does. So making an enemy attack itself sounds like an amusing thing to do to someone. RAW or RAI aren't important here, so much as RAMII (rules as most interestingly interpreted), and it's ultimately up to the DM.

And with me as DM? Damn right I'm doing this at least once...

 

[Tony Vargas]

This question first came up when I was running Gamma World. I rules that a Mind Coercer could, indeed, make an enemy hit itself. I think, in GW, that's fine - it's a goofy game and balance is not a high priority.

In a more serious D&D campaign, I'd probably rule otherwise, as it makes a particularly nasty sort of attack virtually always useable. I like the idea of things like hypnotism being a tad more situational.