Can free actions be used as interrupts?

[keterys]

Force Push is slightly different in that a free action is not forced to happen _after_ something else like an immediate reaction is... of course, you _can_ just move one square to reclose with someone with Repulsion Armor, since movement is reacted to by square, not by entire move action, so someone in CS might have led you astray there.

 

[ahammer]

Hate to open up a can 'o worms, but how is this different than the effect from Repulsive armor? Is it because Repulsive Armor is listed as an immediate reaction?

In the threads I followed, there was a lot of widely separated opinions on the effects from Repulsive armor, and so I finally just took the average of 3 answers from Customer Service. Our group agreed, and this is the way our DM plays it.

In that, when a foe moved adjacent, its action was resolved since RA is an immediate reaction, then they are pushed back 1 square. They can't move again just because they have any movement speed left, because their initial move action had resolved. They could move again if they wanted to spend a standard action or an action point. (but then they lose the ability to attack once they got back).

So how is this Psionics push/shove different than that?

Thanks!

The way I see it is that free action always go when they are said they are being used without ending any actions that are going on right now. ie. still the guys movement phase(unless you wait till he does something else). where as RA wait till the current action is done till it goes off. ie. the guy is done moving.

if you wait till he attacks then the attack has already gone off and it to late to stop it without a true interupt.

so this is why a free action a guy could/would still get to move after it and a RA would not. RA/interputs are more powerful but limited to one per turn.

 

[Ryujin]

Reactions, yes. Interrupts, no.

 

[mneme]

In that, when a foe moved adjacent, its action was resolved since RA is an immediate reaction, then they are pushed back 1 square. They can't move again just because they have any movement speed left, because their initial move action had resolved. They could move again if they wanted to spend a standard action or an action point. (but then they lose the ability to attack once they got back).

See, this? This is simply incorrect.

Immediate reactions to movement go after each square of movement -- not someone ending their movement (which is a separate trigger). So Repulsion Armor doesn't stop people from ending their movement next to you, it just lets you push them the first time they do so (which -can- stop them from attacking you, but you need to be clever -- stand near a pit or a fighter or something, or an extra square away).

If reactions didn't happen on every square of movement, then readied actions on movement wouldn't work properly, which would be a serious problem.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

This is resolved rules pretty much at this point all. A Free Action can happen at any time, which means EFFECTIVELY it is as fast as an interrupt. Just look at Elven Accuracy, its pretty much an identical situation and it has always worked, a Free Action with no trigger which can modify an ongoing action even after a die roll has been made. This case of Pirate Cat's is IDENTICAL IN EVERY RESPECT and works the same. The psion could wait until the hit has been made, then invoke the power, push the enemy back, and invalidate the attack.

The only reason powers like this are NOT immediate interrupts is because you only get one II per round and apparently they didn't want the character to have to use up that one II by using this power. I can't say why that is or if it really is overpowered, but mechanically that's the way it works.

 

[ahammer]

the issue with this is that free actions ~= interrupt.

interrupt spells out that you can invalidate other people actions
free does not. you can try to make a case for it but I dont think that is what they are going for in RAI or RAW

 

[ahammer]

also immediate actions(group for both reactions and interrupts) dont work on your own turn like free action do so Elven Accuracy would not work on your attacks if it was a interrupt.

 

[Piratecat]

A brief note - my friend (who'll probably be by the thread tonight) checked with Trevor, WotC's community guy, and I understand that the official word is "you push them away, and they can advance again if they still have movement left." That seems both rules consistent and a good ruling - it gives options to the player without hosing the foe.

Guys, thank you very much. This thread has been helpful.

 

[keterys]

The psion could wait until the hit has been made, then invoke the power, push the enemy back, and invalidate the attack.

As far as I can tell, this is flatly untrue. If there are actual rules or FAQ statements that would back this up, please provide them. Asking specifically for ones that would back up it working after 'the hit has been made'.

You can easily make an argument, albeit one that a DM can rule whichever way they want, that you can use the free action to push things back and invalidate attacks prior to the point that the character is actually hit, but once hit, you can't invalidate. You already got hit.

It's very much not an interrupt, even if it bears some similarities.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

As far as I can tell, this is flatly untrue. If there are actual rules or FAQ statements that would back this up, please provide them. Asking specifically for ones that would back up it working after 'the hit has been made'.

You can easily make an argument, albeit one that a DM can rule whichever way they want, that you can use the free action to push things back and invalidate attacks prior to the point that the character is actually hit, but once hit, you can't invalidate. You already got hit.

It's very much not an interrupt, even if it bears some similarities.

Then you have to explain why Free Actions like Elven Accuracy work. Elven Accuracy is invoked AFTER a to-hit roll, it is a Free Action with NO trigger, and it replaces the already made roll with a new roll which can then obviously alter the result of an already-determined miss. Its pretty ironclad actually.

The other problem with the position that FAs don't work like IIs is that you can't then explain a way that they DO work. What, I push the guy away and his weapon mysteriously grows longer and still hits me? All sorts of problems arise with different power interactions as soon as you try to work through it that way. Just because Immediate Interrupts STATE that they can invalidate an action has no bearing AT ALL on what other types of powers can or cannot do.