Can I have your balance opinions on DotF's Sacred Fist?

[Kae'Yoss]

Don't forget that a MA will also usually have lower Con than a fighter -- it's the dependence on good stats thing. And let me tell you about our last D&D session, where my 12th level martial artist/fighter/PrC archer went from 110 hp to -7 in one round against a boosted death slaad....

Man, even the party Druid has significantly more HP than my bladesinger (OK, the lucky bastard rolled two 18's and put one on CON...) But I can live with it. (Even without dying, that is. The times the DM had to interfere/ the party had to pay the cleric to ressurect me, it was always because of one or two natural 1's at the wrong save)

Seriously, the class has already been sent in to Asgard, so it's a bit late to make changes now. But if it does appear that it's seriously out of whack, I'll be sure to put up errata.

Well, if they approve with it, then I suppose that it's fine with me.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

I can't comment on the thread's topic (sorry PCat), but I'll just chime in and say I don't think Hong's class is *that* powerful. As a DM, it looks at least close to the baseline, IMO. Of course, this is all at a glance. When I create a class, I try to create NPCs of various levels (low, mid, high) and see how they compare to the core classes.

Overall, not that bad. If you think it is overpowered, should only take a modification or two (maybe lower one of the saves, push back Uncanny Dodge) to make it "better".

Later!

 

[DarkSong]

I guess this is as good a time as any to break my lurker status...um, howdy, all.

Anyway, back on topic (if it's not too late for this thread...)
I've got a keen interest in this, since I'm joining a new party soon, and I'd pretty well decided on some monkish type of character.

I'm looking at either a Tattooed Monk, ala Oriental Adventures, or a Sacred Fist.

My main concern with a Sacred Fist is that he loses out on a lot of the skills available to a monk...I had hoped to have a character to support the party's thief in scouting, and add some muscle to back him up in such areas, but a Sacred Fist just can't do that very well, since hide and move silently aren't class skills.

However, he certainly seems to pack more of a punch, with a better BAB, better ki strike progression, and the eventual Shadow Blows ability.

With that said, I'm really interested in the numbers you and your friend ran, Veldrane to determine that the Tattooed Monk is more powerful from the mid-levels on (I'm starting the character at 6th level...)...nothing I see strongly supports that...it just seems like their powers lie in different areas, so anyway, any light you can shed on that...

Finally, a question on the Sacred Flame ability, since no one commented on Caliber's critique...my reading of the ability is that, when active, it replaces your normal melee damage, rather than adding to it. Useful for taking out trolls and other such critters, but not necessarily something you want on all the time.

So, uh, anyway, guess that's all of that.
Thanks.

DarkSong

 

[Caliber]

Hmm. Interesting take DarkSong. I don't have the text on hand but I am pretty sure that the Sacred Flame ability works like the Flaming weapon enhancement.

Essentially, an extra d6 of damage with an additional + of up to 15. Half divine, half fire. Note that it takes a Standard Action to activate it, just like activating a Flaming property on a weapon. (Of course I normally ignore that but that is neither here nor there ... )

I guess I will go read the description sometime soon. If I end up being completely wrong, I will edit the above post and make everyone who quotes me look like fools. Fools I tell you! Fooools! Bwahahaha!

(Sorry about that. Sleepy. )

 

[Crothian]

Hmm. Interesting take DarkSong. I don't have the text on hand but I am pretty sure that the Sacred Flame ability works like the Flaming weapon enhancement.

It actually says "instead of normal damage...." I had to look that up becasue I, too, thought it worked like the flaming weapon enhancement. Point Darksong, and thanks for pointing that out.

BTW, welcome to the boards, glad to see lurkers de lurk.

 

[Taren Seeker]

Nightsong is correct...The flaming ability replaces the regular unarmed damage. When you read the ability, it tells you exactly how much damage you can do. (1d6 +15 max ain't bad!).

Also, the damage is 1/2 fire and 1/2 sacred, which is useful for the occasion that you can't affect something with your standard fists (Trolls, oozes, etc). The fact that there's no impact damage supports the "damage is replaced" idea. Since you're not exactly touching with your bare hands, I would rule that you're not vulnerable to certain special defenses that work on contact, like a Remhoraz' heat or an ooze's acid.

There's also no limit on how long you can keep the fires burning, so to speak.

For ppl looking for a stealthier version of a Sacred Fist, try using 4 levels of Ranger rather than Paladin to qualify for the PrC. The skills come in handy.

SF is beefy.

 

[Destil]

Sacred Fist I'd say the class looks fairly good. I'd need to look at the eratta (what 5th level spells? Concentration bonus to AC?), but on a whole I think it's a nice sort of variant on the monk. More specilized, but better with its specility (dealing damage), exactialy what a prestige class is supposted to do.

(I'm asuming that the Sacred Flame damage is intended to replace your normal damage, rather than augment it. If it does augment it the class could be a bit much, but remember they don't get to apply their wisdom bonus to AC [instead being able to wear light armor] so it may still be balanced to give them a double wisdom bonus to damage.)

 

[DarkSong]

Free Domain?

BTW, welcome to the boards, glad to see lurkers de lurk.

Thanks for the welcome, always nice to get that, especially from someone as prolific as you, Crothian.

Heh.

Anyway, I'll should get to see my new Sacred Fist in action this Friday, and I'll bump this thing if I notice anything worthwhile.

Thanks for the Ranger levels idea, Taren Seeker...consider that one yoinked and abused (I'm a whore of a power gamer, I just can't help myself, I've been kept from playing for too long...) And the nick is DarkSong, btw.

Oh, and one last thing, I know I've seen this discussed before, but is it generally agreed that Sacred Fists can take prestige domains? I don't mean to start anything, since I'm pretty sure there was some heated disagreement about this last time I saw it...anyway, just looking for the general consensus...failing that, individual opinions will do.



Later.

DarkSong

 

[Piratecat]

Darksong, I'll repeat that welcome! (you have no idea how much will power I'm using to not call you Blacksong, with the intention to change it every single time. ) Oh, and you're right; the (ex-)sage says no prestige domains.

Thanks for being kind enough to keep me (or us) posted. I'll be curious to hear what you find out.

 

[DarkSong]

... Oh, and you're right; the (ex-)sage says no prestige domains....

Actually, I wasn't really advocating that position, just asking...since I'm the player, I'm all about getting a prestige domain with my Sacred Fist.

Curious that The Sage says no prestige domains, when the D&D FAQ at least implicitly says that they're fine (even the specific one I'm interested in, Celerity).

I guess I'll just see what my DM says.

PCat, why Blacksong?

DarkSong