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Can ISLAND CASTAWAYS really see the past/future?
- Thread starter Waltz1982
- Start date
Illusia
First Post
Hello. I'm new to your forum. Of course I find this topic right off the bat. It's a very difficult one too. As someone with some talent in this area, though I don't use it as a profession, only in my own life and I have helped some others, including law officials in the past, I find I mostly don't get into to it with your average person. Most people just look at you like you've lost your mind or they treat you like you're a silly child with a daydream. Neither of which is pleasant to endure.
But I will say this, the one thing that stands out in my experience is, it doesn't work like you can force it to do your bidding, it rather has a mind of it's own and can come and go at it's own will. Which is maddening for the person with the gift or whatever you want to call it. Mine is strong and I've learned to trust it for my own life guidance. As I stated above, I have been asked and occassionally given aid to friends. Don't wish to have it, it's not an easy thing to carry with you.
On the topic, I'd say it's hard in today's world to find a genuine gifted person that isn't just saying they are for profit or attention. I believe it has alot to do with the state of your heart as well. For myself, I couldn't use it for gain, for instance to win the lottery or such, even if I wanted to. It just doesn't work that way. You see, it's even hard to explain, though I know if there are others gifted as I am, they will understand what I'm trying to explain.
Anyway, just my first 2 cents worth.
But I will say this, the one thing that stands out in my experience is, it doesn't work like you can force it to do your bidding, it rather has a mind of it's own and can come and go at it's own will. Which is maddening for the person with the gift or whatever you want to call it. Mine is strong and I've learned to trust it for my own life guidance. As I stated above, I have been asked and occassionally given aid to friends. Don't wish to have it, it's not an easy thing to carry with you.
On the topic, I'd say it's hard in today's world to find a genuine gifted person that isn't just saying they are for profit or attention. I believe it has alot to do with the state of your heart as well. For myself, I couldn't use it for gain, for instance to win the lottery or such, even if I wanted to. It just doesn't work that way. You see, it's even hard to explain, though I know if there are others gifted as I am, they will understand what I'm trying to explain.
Anyway, just my first 2 cents worth.
Another thing to consider is the ethics involved. let's take one of the most famous (curently, anyway) psychics around: Jonathan Edwards.
With JE, there are two possibilities:
a)He does not possess psychic ability and is therefore preying on the grief stricken, using their hopes of one last communication with someone close to them for his own profit. Extremely unethical, IMO.
b)He does possess some sort of psychic ability. Whether he talks to ghosts or has visions or whatever is unimportant to this discusssion (but would be extremely important to pretty much every person on the planet). If this were the case, he would be peddlingw hat may be the most powerful tool in the world to line his own pockets, rather than using it to locate missing children, kidnapped hostages in Iraq, or those who have disappeared in other ways. This is perhaps even more unethical than faking it for money.
Of course, there is a third possibility: he is a fake but doesn't know it and his particular delusion requires that he takes on "personal" missions, rather than "global" ones. If this is the case, he needs a steady stream of psychoactives and a nice padded cell.
I think everyone can point to instances in their own lives where things seemed a little weird. And I don't discount the existence of extra-normal abilites. Note, though, that I said "extra-normal", not "paranormal". If a person has an unusually acute electromagnetic sense, for example, this is an extra sense, one that most people don't have. But it is still explainable and fits into the general laws of science. Also note that I do not believe for one second that we have it "all figured out" and things like ESP, precognition or telepathy may exist in some form and work under a set of scientific laws that we haven't can groked yet.
With JE, there are two possibilities:
a)He does not possess psychic ability and is therefore preying on the grief stricken, using their hopes of one last communication with someone close to them for his own profit. Extremely unethical, IMO.
b)He does possess some sort of psychic ability. Whether he talks to ghosts or has visions or whatever is unimportant to this discusssion (but would be extremely important to pretty much every person on the planet). If this were the case, he would be peddlingw hat may be the most powerful tool in the world to line his own pockets, rather than using it to locate missing children, kidnapped hostages in Iraq, or those who have disappeared in other ways. This is perhaps even more unethical than faking it for money.
Of course, there is a third possibility: he is a fake but doesn't know it and his particular delusion requires that he takes on "personal" missions, rather than "global" ones. If this is the case, he needs a steady stream of psychoactives and a nice padded cell.
I think everyone can point to instances in their own lives where things seemed a little weird. And I don't discount the existence of extra-normal abilites. Note, though, that I said "extra-normal", not "paranormal". If a person has an unusually acute electromagnetic sense, for example, this is an extra sense, one that most people don't have. But it is still explainable and fits into the general laws of science. Also note that I do not believe for one second that we have it "all figured out" and things like ESP, precognition or telepathy may exist in some form and work under a set of scientific laws that we haven't can groked yet.
Torm
Explorer
Illusia said:
Bingo. On the few occasions I've had experience with it, I've never really been certain whether it was some "supernatural" phenomenon, but it felt more like an enhanced hunch - almost like my subconscious had been working with all the factors and suddenly gained an insight with a much higher degree of probability than its usual ones. Or something somehow connected with Deja Vu in the way it feels. Definitely not something I can control, and while I suppose it is possible that someone somewhere could have trained themselves to do so, I'm disinclined to believe the majority that claim "psychic powers" to the extent of wanting to charge for them, and would need proof.
I've always wondered - if they're REALLY psychic and can control it at all, why don't they ever call you?:
>ring ring< (person picks up)
Voice on the other end: Duck! Now!
(person ducks, followed by screaming, rending sounds of debris from the exploding semi ripping part of the top half of their house off)
Voice on the other end: You okay? Good. Now that that's out of the way, I'm with the Psychic Friends Hotline. This call is $3.99 a minute. That okay?
Person: um.....uh......sure......
Voice: I knew it would be.
Planesdragon
First Post
The answer
Can psychics see the future?
No. They MAY be able to predict the future, in a relatively uncontrolled and not terribly useful manner, but that's pretty much the limit of precognition.
Unless, of course, you believe that every successful person is a psychic, or that there's some metaphysical "psychic police." Or that psychics see the future as it would be if they do not change things, and the mere act of buying a lottery ticket changes the numbers payout.
Hmm... if you take fate as a given, and you're a psychic who can see the future--wouldn't you taking the winnings from the person who would eventually win them be stealing?
Can psychics see the future?
No. They MAY be able to predict the future, in a relatively uncontrolled and not terribly useful manner, but that's pretty much the limit of precognition.
Unless, of course, you believe that every successful person is a psychic, or that there's some metaphysical "psychic police." Or that psychics see the future as it would be if they do not change things, and the mere act of buying a lottery ticket changes the numbers payout.
Hmm... if you take fate as a given, and you're a psychic who can see the future--wouldn't you taking the winnings from the person who would eventually win them be stealing?
CIA used them at least tested them and I have seen a lot of stuff but it really comes down to people telling you what you are being told you are seeing, basic general information, then detailed information of what matches, which MAY cause association. You can get the same from a good profile, which will freak people out too. 
WayneLigon
Adventurer
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. People tend to remember the times something worked and forget all the (many more numerous) times that things went wrong or had no result. Media tends to report successes and/or unusual events; a psychic 'proven' to be right in some regard will get reported on while the dozens of unprofitable or even counterproductive efforts are ignored unless something spetacularly wrong happens (like when a psychic named an innocent man as the Boston Strangler).Waltz1982 said:
Even 'proven' instances of psychic aid may be over-reported, misquoted, or simply manufactured. The amount of aid a psychic gives often grows in the telling. Many times suppossed 'revelations' prove out to be something a person with a sharp ear and eye could do, or that the psychic has a source of information readily available to others.
The ones that provide some degree of information that seems on the surface to be something no-one could logically know are engaging in a practice called 'retrofitting' (a form of 'cold reading'; this is the same thing John Edwards on Crossing Over does) where purposefully vague references are later 'fitted' to discovered information by either the psychic or those who want to believe in him. Thankfully, at least most of those who offer aid to the police (the police virtually never seek a psychics aid; either the aid is offered, or the family or friends pay to have a psychic brought in on their own time and money) are people who seem to genuinely want to help and think they have a means to do so.
evildmguy
Explorer
I just liked this topic and had to reply.
So, no one has watched Penn & Teller's Bullsh*t? In it, they debunked psychics, like John Edwards as well as many other topics. Like any proof, or faith, certainly people won't believe the "debunking" if they don't want to.
In any case, P&T sent someone in to the psychic and they got 0, yes zero, hits. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
Points they raised:
-"psychics" on a TV show have the power of editing to make them look better.
-"psychics" use both warm and cold calls and are very effective at it.
-Houdini did this all a hundred years ago!
As for Deja Vu, I have heard that is a brain read/write problem, if you will, where the sensory information is somehow stored and then read in the wrong order, giving that feeling.
I guess I have seen too much evidence against psychics and not enough evidence for them to think they exist. Heck! I remember an old That's Incredible debunking one!
Have a good one! Take care!
edg
So, no one has watched Penn & Teller's Bullsh*t? In it, they debunked psychics, like John Edwards as well as many other topics. Like any proof, or faith, certainly people won't believe the "debunking" if they don't want to.
In any case, P&T sent someone in to the psychic and they got 0, yes zero, hits. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
Points they raised:
-"psychics" on a TV show have the power of editing to make them look better.
-"psychics" use both warm and cold calls and are very effective at it.
-Houdini did this all a hundred years ago!
As for Deja Vu, I have heard that is a brain read/write problem, if you will, where the sensory information is somehow stored and then read in the wrong order, giving that feeling.
I guess I have seen too much evidence against psychics and not enough evidence for them to think they exist. Heck! I remember an old That's Incredible debunking one!
Have a good one! Take care!
edg
Being an atheist, I tend to regard psychic powers in much the same light. I don't believe they exist, but know that I can't prove it to the satisfaction of someone who does.
I've read enough by James Randi to know that essentially every "claim" of sucessful psychic powers has proven to be BS or a very non-psychic trick, including supposed "Secret" CIA experiments or "Psychic Detectives" helping out with crimes (in many cases the actual detectives have never even heard of the Psychic who supposedly solved the crime). The occasional "scientific" experiments that "proved" someone's ability has eventually been found to be a scam of some sort by the psychic. The problem is that scientists usually deal with the laws of physics and chemistry, which don't cheat or deceive you during the course of an experiment. Which is why the best psychic busters have been people like Houdini or Randi who know the stage magic tricks and principles that the psychics use to con their marks.
Penn and Teller in their series "Bul$@#it" also cover the BS that gets peddled for several different types of psychic powers.
As far as personal experiences go. I've no doubt that most people who claim to have had some sort of experience are completely sincere and honest about their claim. The problem is that personal experience is untrustworthy and most people have a very poor understanding of the difference between causality and coincidence.
We notice things that fit with what we want to happen, while far more plentiful contradictory evidence is ignored, because it doesn't catch our attention. A good example of this is Street Lights turning off. People notice it if a street light turns off as they are going past them. They don't notice the dozens more that don't turn off as they are going past. If this happens a couple of times it's easy to form a belief that "Everytime I go out a street light goes out. OOOHHHHH scarryyy kids! It's happened to me.
Another good example is stock picking scams. You take a list of 1000 people. pick a stock tell half of them it's going up and half it's going down. The next day you call up half you were correct for and tell half of them that a different stock will go up and half down. After say two weeks, you have a list of 10 people or so for whom you have sucessfully "predicted" the stock movements for the past two weeks. To the mark, this person has had 100% accuracy, it's just that they are unaware that this accuracy is the result of random chance not any accumen or knowledge of the con artist.
I've read enough by James Randi to know that essentially every "claim" of sucessful psychic powers has proven to be BS or a very non-psychic trick, including supposed "Secret" CIA experiments or "Psychic Detectives" helping out with crimes (in many cases the actual detectives have never even heard of the Psychic who supposedly solved the crime). The occasional "scientific" experiments that "proved" someone's ability has eventually been found to be a scam of some sort by the psychic. The problem is that scientists usually deal with the laws of physics and chemistry, which don't cheat or deceive you during the course of an experiment. Which is why the best psychic busters have been people like Houdini or Randi who know the stage magic tricks and principles that the psychics use to con their marks.
Penn and Teller in their series "Bul$@#it" also cover the BS that gets peddled for several different types of psychic powers.
As far as personal experiences go. I've no doubt that most people who claim to have had some sort of experience are completely sincere and honest about their claim. The problem is that personal experience is untrustworthy and most people have a very poor understanding of the difference between causality and coincidence.
We notice things that fit with what we want to happen, while far more plentiful contradictory evidence is ignored, because it doesn't catch our attention. A good example of this is Street Lights turning off. People notice it if a street light turns off as they are going past them. They don't notice the dozens more that don't turn off as they are going past. If this happens a couple of times it's easy to form a belief that "Everytime I go out a street light goes out. OOOHHHHH scarryyy kids! It's happened to me.
Another good example is stock picking scams. You take a list of 1000 people. pick a stock tell half of them it's going up and half it's going down. The next day you call up half you were correct for and tell half of them that a different stock will go up and half down. After say two weeks, you have a list of 10 people or so for whom you have sucessfully "predicted" the stock movements for the past two weeks. To the mark, this person has had 100% accuracy, it's just that they are unaware that this accuracy is the result of random chance not any accumen or knowledge of the con artist.
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