Can you do subdual damage with a CDG?

[FlimFlam]

Anyone know?

 

[Mr Fidgit]

i'd have to say no, based on, "if the the defender survives the damage, he still must make a Fort save (DC10+damage dealt) or die."

 

[AuraSeer]

As Mr. Fidgit says, it doesn't seem to be allowed by the strict letter of the rules. However, it seems to be a relatively common house rule. My campaign uses it, and it doesn't seem unbalancing.

The way we do it, when making a subdual CDG, a failure on the Fort save means the target is knocked out. His subdual damage total is changed to 10 above his normal hp, unless he has more subdual damage already. (This is equivalent to having a normal CDG put the target at -10 hp.)

Since a CDG automatically hits, you can usually ignore the penalty for doing subdual damage with a normal weapon. Rogues need to be aware of it, because it means they can't apply their sneak attack damage to the strike (except with a sap), but it's seldom a problem for other characters.

 

[Crothian]

Ya, by the letter of the rule no, but it should be an additional way to use it.

 

[FlimFlam]

The FAQ kind of hints at the fact that you can perform a coup de grace that does subdual damage.

From the FAQ:

Combat Modifiers

I understand that if an opponent is grappled and pinned
that opponent is not helpless and therefore not subject to a
coup de grace. But if that same opponent was rendered
unconscious, could you perform a coup de grace as an
unarmed attack? If so, what would the damage be?



You are correct, pinned characters are not helpless and are
not subject to coup de grace. You can use an unarmed attack
for a coup de grace. The target has to save as noted on page 133
of the Player™s Handbook. Note that you can deal normal
damage with an unarmed attack by taking at a -4 penalty on the
attack. (You automatically hit when you deal the coup de grace,
so the penalty isn't relevant.) If you choose to deal real
damage, you’ll eventually kill a helpless foe even if the foe
keeps making successful saving throws.

It says you can deal normal damage on an unarmed attack. So it seems like the default (for unarmed attacks anyway) is that you do subdual damage instead. I guess it is possible.

 

[Stalker0]

Kimbly, the party's rogue, is woken up to the bellyaching of the prisoner they have been keeping the last few days.

"Here we go again" Kimbly grumbles as he picks up a sap.

He walks over to the prisoner and winds up with his sap, feeling confident that he can wale into this guy with no harmful sideeffects.

The sap gently crashes against the prisoner, and HIS HEAD EXPLODES!!!

Kimbly takes a moment to drop his jaw. Upon recovering himself, he silently creeps back to his sleeping bag and goes back to sleep.

The next morning, the party's cleric of Pelor is screaming, demanding to know what happened to the prisoner that he was so eager to convert to the side of light.

Kimbly looks at the sky and smiles, knowing the gods obviously wanted the man dead. "Hey, they can't blame me. I'm just the messenger."

 

[dcollins]

It says you can deal normal damage on an unarmed attack. So it seems like the default (for unarmed attacks anyway) is that you do subdual damage instead. I guess it is possible.

I disagree. That phrase needs to be interpreted as "here's the rule that allows you to use unarmed attacks for CDGs, which you may have overlooked when you asked the question".

Yes, unarmed attacks by default deal subdual damage. But unarmed attacks can only be used for CDGs when selecting to do normal damage.