Can you "Take 20" to Hide?

[Li Shenron]

If you have total cover from someone (and that cover is opaque), you don't have to make a Hide check, right?

If you are already behind it when the potential spotter comes there, no.

But you also make a Hide check for example to quickly move behind the cover when you see someone approaching.

 

[Legildur]

I remember reading a Core Rulebook (I think) where it provided the example of a trolls? spotting the party and hiding to ambush them when they approached. But I can't find the example right now, but it might answer some of the questions.

 

[airwalkrr]

There are a few things to keep in mind here. The DC of a Hide check is basically the Spot check of the character trying to see you. Since you cannot typically cannot retry a failed Hide check, taking 20 is pointless. In essence, there is a penalty for failure. If your opponents were trying to Spot you and willing to let you keep trying to Hide until they failed to see you, then you could take 20. But taking 20 assumes you fail many times before you succeed. Since you cannot know whether or not you succeed until someone tries to Spot you, you cannot take 20 while using Hide. Having an ally try to Spot you is not the same thing either, since you would be hiding under different conditions if an enemy tried to Spot you (different Spot modifier).

Taking 10 is a different story. As long as you are not being threatened or in a strenuous situation, you can take 10 on a Hide check easily. In fact, I often recommend it.

 

[amethal]

If you have total cover from someone (and that cover is opaque), you don't have to make a Hide check, right?

Not normally.

I can think of some silly situations where you would have to (for instance, if there was a mirror behind you ...)

If I am sitting in a windowless cellar when the orcs walk past outside, I wouldn't have to make a hide check.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

"Huh, where am I sidney. Hehehehe"
"You're behind the sofa"
"..Heha.WHAT? How do you know?"
"I can see your feet"
"Damn it! You must let me try and hide again!"

 

[Hypersmurf]

There are a few things to keep in mind here. The DC of a Hide check is basically the Spot check of the character trying to see you. Since you cannot typically cannot retry a failed Hide check, taking 20 is pointless. In essence, there is a penalty for failure. If your opponents were trying to Spot you and willing to let you keep trying to Hide until they failed to see you, then you could take 20. But taking 20 assumes you fail many times before you succeed. Since you cannot know whether or not you succeed until someone tries to Spot you, you cannot take 20 while using Hide. Having an ally try to Spot you is not the same thing either, since you would be hiding under different conditions if an enemy tried to Spot you (different Spot modifier).

If I Hide from a goblin, with a roll of 17 vs his Spot roll of 12, I am hidden, right? Next round, a hobgoblin comes along. Do I need to roll a second Hide check despite not moving, or does the hobgoblin oppose my existing 17 with his new Spot roll?

-Hyp.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Not directly on topic, but...

FWIW, somewhere in the DMG it says that the DM can make one Spot roll for the entire party and just apply each PC's Spot check modifier to that single roll. I can't find the reference right now, but I know I've read it.

 

[frankthedm]

Hide checks are rolled when someone is tryng to spot you, thus IMHO it should fall under having a consequences for failure.

I can see this too easily abused by the DM. Practically every monster in the dungeon has the time to take 20 on hide. I'm having visions of surprise rounds starting off each encounter.

If it works then it is a legitimate use, not an abuse, of the skill. Those creatures have been down there long enough to make it their home, they will be taking advatage of the area.

As pointed out, being able to take 20 on a hide is not a good idea. Besides if you have that much time, Break line of sight. There is no hide check needed if you are on the other side of an object that breaks LOS. In the worse case senario, you will have full cover when the picks you up with blingsight or scent.

 

[jason_gosse]

I may be mistaken but here is my opinion:

I walk into a room and want to wait in hiding for the return of I creature I plan to kill, so I have plenty of time to hide. I think it would be much harder to find me just walking into the room and taking a look around (a spot check) then if I was there, heard someone at the door and jumped behind something. Therefore I believe I should take a 20, if not an incremental bonus for a set time (ie. +1 per round).

Now I don't think you can take 20 on spot, but I believe that it would be just as well to make a search.

So an assassin gets to king's chamber and has 5 minutes to prepare to hide. He looks all over, picks the most advantageous location and hides.

The king, a high level fighter, walks in and makes a spot, fails and goes to bed. Then he dies.

or

The king walks in, is a paranoid man and still a high level fighter. He makes a thorough search of his room, finds the assassin and slays him.

 

[tomBitonti]

Semi-random thoughts ...

Semi-random, so IHMO:

...

So ... if a character spends time beforehand finding a great hiding spot,
say, behind a stone wall, wouldn't finding that spot be the equivalent
of gaining a circumstance bonus?

I'd imagine that a character that dons camouflage netting is gaining
a bonus to their hide check. A character that removes all shine on their
person should gain a bonus. (Remember: Shape, Surface, Shine, Silhouette,
Shadow, Spacing and Movement) Hmm, unless that is what the character's
hide ability represents ... their ability to know these factors and minimize them.

...

The problem that I'm having is that the spot DC should be less random
than the spot vs. hide mechanic makes it. Spotting your fallen
comrade, who was wearing a brown and green outfit, and who fell
into a clump of similarly colored foliage, should not take a spot check
against a hide ability. It should have a fixed or nearly fixed spot DC.
(or a pseudo hide roll, based on the circumstances?)

On the other hand, spotting a bright blue character in front of a yellow
background ("in plain sight") should be and is automatic.

...

I'd imagine that if a character has time to setup a camouflage blind, and
steps out to check on the visibility of that blind, should be able to set the
spot DC to their own best spot result. The time to setup the blind should
be longer than 20 spot checks, since they have to go back to their blind
and adjust between checks. And, the blind should definitely be directional.
(Ever watch a magic show from *behind* the magician? You see a heck a
lot more of the mundane mechanics of the tricks.)

...

In a case where the hide result cannot be checked, say, if a character dives
behind a log into a pile of leaves and has no real idea of how well they hid,
then a single hide roll to determine their spot DC -- with modifiers according to
how much cover the leaves might actually provide, and according to the
characters outfit, and how good they are at burrowing into the leaves (their
hide ability) -- seems appropriate. But whether they hid well (burrowed deeply)
or poorly (left their butt sticking out) would be according to a single roll.