Can you teleport an unwilling, but unconscious, person with you?

[jasper]

sorry double post

 

[Don21584]

"Moving has nothing to do with the willingness of a person being teleported"

So, if you're being grabbed (while conscious) for a teleport spell, all you have to do is say "no" and then suddenly through some divine intervention you're not teleported? There has to be more to it than that.

 

[Crothian]

"Moving has nothing to do with the willingness of a person being teleported"

So, if you're being grabbed (while conscious) for a teleport spell, all you have to do is say "no" and then suddenly through some divine intervention you're not teleported? There has to be more to it than that.

It's called magic. Unless you are willing, you don't go. It's the limits on the spell.

 

[IceBear]

Somebody in this threat argued that an unconscious person would not get a will save in the same way as a helpless person would not get a reflex save. This made me wonder what the PHB actually says about this, because in my memory it is exactly the other way around: a creature always gets a savingthrow unless he consciously decides not to take one.

Looking at page 133: Helpless defender, all it states is that the character has got an effective dexterity of 0 (-5 penalty to dex). It does not mention anything about any saves that will fail automatically. So I checked PHB page 150 and again I do not find anything to support this effect. In fact, the text in voluntarily giving up a saving throw suggests that it takes a conscious action to give up a save. The exception to this are harmless spells, where it takes a conscious action to make a save. Looking at page 119 also does not mention anything about saves not working when a person is unconscious. So there is absolutely no rule that I can find to support the opinion that helpless persons can only make fortitude saves. In fact, they can even make reflex saves. Which is not to strange since unconscious characters still tend to have reflexes.

As far as teleporting is concerned. The state of unconsciousness can be reached through more means then hit point reduction. In fact, a simple sleep spell will have the same effect. So if you allow unconscious people to be teleported against their will, you are opening a can of worms. In the end though I agree with people, that to treat unconscious people as objects is story wise probably the best descision.

I'd allow the PCs to teleport off with their unconscious allies, and thus I'd allow the evil villian to teleport off with an unconscious PC as a plot device.

About the no saves. There has been some debate on this, but I think if you look at the section regarding Evasion there is some statement about "Like with Reflex saves, Evasion does not work if you cannot dodge". Some people argue that you could still make a Save even if you can't move, but for me that passage coupled with the thought of someone who is paralyzed dodging a fireball made my mind. As for Will saves, I do think that someone from WotC (maybe it was Sean) that said that the saves are still allowed because at the unconscious level, the spirit of the creature will still try to fight off the magic.

IceBear

 

[Pielorinho]

I'd consider unconscious creatures to be objects for the purposes of this spell. Simple and straightforward and fun for the whole family.

Daniel

 

[Magus_Jerel]

As a brief spin-off, does this mean that an unconscious person sacrifices all Will saves?

Does this mean that you can pummel an opponent into the ground, then throw a Charm Person at him and he's be your best buddy. Or better still, (at higher levels), throw a Dominate Person and make him your servant...

The possibilities are beginning to look interesting...(insert evil DM's laugh)

This is exactly WHY you have to treat the unconcious as objects... It leads to a "slippery slope" problem that Al is just beginning to step on.

 

[IceBear]

As I stated earlier, it was stated by someone at WotC that if a sleeping character (I know, that's not exactly the same as unconscious) had a spell requiring a Will Save cast on them, they would still get a save to reflect the subconscious mind rising up to throw off the spell effects.

If you can't move, however, and are hit by a spell which requires a Reflex save, then you're screwed Yes, there is some debate on this (as it's never explicitly stated in the rules, but it is implied by the Evasion rules and does make sense).

IceBear

 

[Macbrea]

Here is a quote from the SRD that might help or fuel this debate.

Wisdom

Any creature that can perceive its environment in any fashion has at least 1 point of Wisdom.

Anything with no Wisdom score is an object, not a creature. Anything without a Wisdom score also has no Charisma score, and vice versa.

The real quest come down to can unconscious victims perceive its environment in anyway? If it cannot and is considered helpless then it is nothing more then an object according to the rules of wisdom.


Also, note the wording of the following:

· INT 0 means that the character cannot think and is unconscious in a coma like stupor, helpless.
· WIS 0 means that the character is withdrawn into a deep sleep filled with nightmares, helpless.
· CHA 0 means that the character is withdrawn into a catatonic, coma like stupor, helpless.

All of which indicate that unconsciousness due to injury may be much more drastic then just plain sleeping at a normal campfire.

 

[Bonedagger]

Without having looked in any rulebooks I would say that you can be willing, unwilling and unaware. Only one of these criteria allows teleportation.

 

[Magic Rub]

Then having a contingency on the mage that teleports his body back to his tower when he reaches 0hp wont work either...

So what about this question. I wanna know. Tell me, tell me, tell me!

I think it will (hee hee) work because the mage in question has pre-authorized the spells "do you want to be teleported?" question.