Cantrips as encounter powers?

It won't stop a wizard from using one ability over and over (at least 4 times for an INT of 18).

Using only the generic wizard as an example and if we go by memorization rule, where the spell fades as soon as it is cast, you will not have an overspam of one spell during an "encounter."
And it will still require the wizard to memorise the spell again between encounters, especially if its powerful.

I prefer the "Stamina" approach as it makes more sense than having a set no. of times you cast a spell per day. What does that even mean? What if you cast one more - why can't you? Why are you able to memorise more spells as you progress in levels. Youth generally have a pretty decent memory, surely a younger wizard (i.e. lower level) would be able to memorise more spells than an older one - perhaps not as powerful as the elder but certainly more.

I would rather see a fatigue technique kick in, whereby if you push yourself in an encounter casting spells, fatigue/weakness/daze kicks in possibly pushing yourself into unconciousness at the strain of attempting to cast one more spell. The spells wont necessarily be successful once the physical strain begins, so you are taking a gamble which is great for roleplaying desperation tactics. And through all this you will be limited to the number of spells you have memorised.

As you rise in level, your ability to manipulate/harness the magic energies so as not to affect you as much will grow (hence growth in "Stamina"/level)

One important feature of 4e is that it is more forgiving on less-than-perfect balance between abilities, because a given encounter power and a given daily power can be used only once per appropriate segment of play.

Stamina rate could return to you per hour, depending on your condition.

The furore over 4e psionics showed the importance of this - 4e psionicists have power points similar to your stamina points, able to repeatedly use a given ability provided that they still have power points left. And balance problems, leading to spamming particular overpowered abilities, showed up almost straight away.

I dont think its fair to equate the generic Wizards magic with a Psionicist's power of mind. They are very different thematically and should be seen as such during gameplay. It would be a better comparison to use a Sorcerer and the Psionicist.
So for the Sorcerer/Psionicist the same mechanic would flow, except they might not be able to harness as much magic/powers as would a Wizard. It could be more streneous - given then it is more innate rather than "summoning/crafting" the magic. Depends on what your definition of magic is in your campaign.
So essentially they could have fewer "Stamina" points. You could also add limitations with certain powers/spells - due to the energies required and therefore need more time to set-up (a round between spamming them again)..etc
But dont take away from the class - essentially they are the true At-willers, I wouldnt want their thematic class component taken away because of bad mechanics.

In summation I would prefer using this Fatigue mechanic for Arcane Casters - it makes more sense than all this daily allotments which serve no real purpose other than a poor roleplaying reason to limit the Arcane User's power. It would also fix the at-will spam damage spells.

For Divine Casters who harness the power of their deities, the daily allotment works fine, but if they push/draw on/request more power from their deity than they are alloted, they can essentially cause physical damage to themselves from the pure divine energy they are harnessing through their bodies. Taking hit point damage and possibly even wounds/scarring (different mechanic, could even be permanent depending on what they asked for).
The current DnD systems currently have set spell/divine limits which dont elaborate on what happens if you push those limits or why could cant cast/call on more - which makes those limits rather arbitrary in my opinion.
 
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We did...spamming magical attacks made bows (even masterworked bows) useless. So we just assigned a number of slots to them and called it good. It became a moot point, though, since we ended up staying with 3.5E.

Cantrip: 1d3 per round.

Bow/Arrow: 1d6 per round. Without counting any bonuses from things like PBS, RS, Mighty, or Deadly Aim.

My experience differs from you; At-will low-damage spellcasting did not make other ranged characters superfluous and it had a certain aesthetic appeal by virtue of the spellcaster not resorting to crossbows/thrown daggers because they ran out of spells early in the fight.

The lack of at-will cantrips/osirins makes me a sad panda whenever I have to play 3.5 again.
 

The furore over 4e psionics showed the importance of this - 4e psionicists have power points similar to your stamina points, able to repeatedly use a given ability provided that they still have power points left. And balance problems, leading to spamming particular overpowered abilities, showed up almost straight away.

The problem with 4e psionics isn't the direct balance (although that needs a little work). It's the scaling. Overpowered encounter powers at heroic are ... slightly overpowered. But most classes have them and they aren't a big deal. However the encounter-equivalent in heroic costs 2pp. In epic you are getting 6pp per encounter-equivalent, but if one of your powers is still heroic you can use it at the 2pp level effectively at will, most fights not going on for a dozen rounds.

Encounter spells should never heal you. Period. These are problematic spells.

Good job you lose surges then. But yes, the rest issue gets silly if abused.
 


I am just of the opinion, that there should not be spells that cost no kinds of resource... Either an opportunity cost, or a material cost. It is not that i dislike at-will magic per se. But I rather have the wizard at least need a fokus or better some kinds of cheap material components to fuel their at will magic. A fighter also needs a sword or crossbow bolts.
Maybe some few, non lethal spells could actually be at will, as the fighter also can punch with the fists...
 

Cantrip: 1d3 per round.

Bow/Arrow: 1d6 per round. Without counting any bonuses from things like PBS, RS, Mighty, or Deadly Aim.
It's not just about the amount of damage, though. At-will attack cantrips have infinite ammunition, automatically reload every round, can be used one-handed, don't require a move action to change weapons, are weightless, can't be disarmed or sundered, benefit from the same feats that bows do (point blank shot, etc.) and so on. They are superior to bows in every possible way except maybe the amount of damage they inflict.

A lot of people like at-will magic in their games, and they should have the option to keep using it. We will house-rule it away as soon as we see it, however.
 

I'm good, at least, with the orisons as they are. Radiant lance came nowhere close to the level of mayhem the fighter was causing, which seems to be a fine balance for those prepared spells where the cleric can outshine the fighter for a turn.
 

Didn't psionic power points in AD&D 1st ed recharge on a per hour basis? Which would be a pretty well-established example of an ability recharge mechanic other than "per day".

Yes, they did. From 0/hr if you were doing hard physical labor, to 3/hr for walking, then doubling for more restful activities up to 24/hr if you were sleeping.

It's not just about the amount of damage, though. At-will attack cantrips have infinite ammunition, automatically reload every round, can be used one-handed, don't require a move action to change weapons, are weightless, can't be disarmed or sundered, benefit from the same feats that bows do (point blank shot, etc.) and so on. They are superior to bows in every possible way except maybe the amount of damage they inflict.

A lot of people like at-will magic in their games, and they should have the option to keep using it. We will house-rule it away as soon as we see it, however.

Just curious, but did you dislike the later 3.5 classes, too, with the Warlock, the Binder, and the various incarnum classes (plus a few others I am sure I am leaving out ... one from Dragon Magic, I think) all having some flavor of at-will damages?

With incarnum and soulmelds in play, nearly any class can get some form of at-will damage for a couple feats. Reserve feats also belong in this general category, but you do have to keep an appropriate type of spell ready to cast -- by slot or prepared spell -- in order to use them, so they are only mostly at-will.
 

Just curious, but did you dislike the later 3.5 classes, too, with the Warlock, the Binder, and the various incarnum classes (plus a few others I am sure I am leaving out ... one from Dragon Magic, I think) all having some flavor of at-will damages?
I remember the Warlock from Complete Arcane, but I don't remember any other class that had at-will magic. I stopped buying 3.5E products shortly after Eberron came out...I didn't care for the direction the game was heading (The Book of Nine Swords, Tome of Magic, Races of the Dragon, etc.) Each new book seemed to move further away from what I thought D&D should be.

I didn't like the Warlock for several reasons, only one of which was that game-wrecking eldritch blast. I didn't like its quasi-demonic flavor, I didn't like the automatic healing, I didn't like the instant magic items...that class was just a mess.
 

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