Career Choice: Database Administrator

[ssampier]

If you want to learn either Oracle or SQL Server there are now somewhat cutdown versions being made available for free by Oracle and M$, the open source systems like postgres and MySQL are free as well.

I did not know Oracle and MS were able for free. Where can I obtain these? I knew MySQL and PostgresSQL were available, but I'm still slowly learning my way around Linux.

We're the people that call you when things go wrong.

It can vary from simple hardware/software issues (usually more of a help desk), to things like what I do, which is Batch Monitoring (Watching the job stream, troubleshooting and ticketing issues, working with support to resolve failed jobs, scheduling and calling in jobs).

Neat. I'd rather not go down the help desktop route much more, since that's what I do now and it's not my cup of tea. The second doesn't sound too bad, especially if I can get a "taste" of different job function (network admin, coding, and database).

Honestly, it's probably a good way to get into a company. The pay can be fairly decient, you get to learn how people interact with applications or how the system handles the use of databases, and it should give you an appreciation for the support guys on the phone who call you asking you to fix things. I've been at my current position for almost a year, and it has been a lot of fun, as well as a learning experience in IT Infrastructure. On an average night, I get to watch at least fifty thousand jobs, many of which run multiple times throughout the night, as well as play with the infrastructure that keeps them going.

I make an "okay" salary at my current job, $11 an hour, good for entry-level support, bad sometimes for the many hats I sometimes have to wear. My next job I'd hope to make $15 an hour with some certs and more experience, is that practical with operations support?

Schooling can help, so can certifications, but generaly employers are begining to look for experience as well. Simple tech work can lead to bigger and better things if you are constantly striving to learn them.

I do have a Bachelor's degree, if in an unrelated field. My "tech support" position gives me more insight than I ever thought possible.

A big thing is to keep yourself out there. Working tech support? Start looking for that next step after you've settiled in for a little bit. It may take a while, but keeping a look out is good, and doing it while you have a job is not only better for you and your finances, it looks good to an employer to see that you're driven to move beyond your current position.

Simple Certifications that help: A+, Network+, MCSA and MCSE (and even the tests heading into them).

I have my A+ book and study guide; I've been fairly lazy studying for it. I definitely think Network + is next.

Do you think MCSA/MCSE is worth the money so early in my career?

Thanks everyone for the advice.

 

[drothgery]

I did not know Oracle and MS were able for free. Where can I obtain these? I knew MySQL and PostgresSQL were available, but I'm still slowly learning my way around Linux.

SQL Server Express: http://msdn.microsoft.com/sql/express/default.aspx ; if you look around a bit you can get a time-limitted full version of SQL Server.

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Any specific reason I should choose Oracle over Microsoft SQL Server or any other server database?

I said so.

Now, to reduce my FQ (Flippancy Quotient) and give you a real answer. You really don't need to pick Oracle. (But if you want big databases, Oracle's where to specialize. And Oracle on Unix just rocks.)

What you really should do, however, is learn Oracle + become a top notch Oracle DBA guru (you will know you've made it when you are asked to join the Oak Table) and then learn other databases (while keeping current with Oracle products). You will be able to give clients what they really need, instead of just pushing one product line. That's the problem today--most people push one (Oracle! Oracle ! Oracle!) or the other (SQL Server! SQL Server! SQL Server!) or the other (Ingres! Ingres! Ingres!). But you don't need Oracle to run a building security database (10 users and a database of < 1000 people who use the building). And you can't use SQL Server to run eBay. Even a huge IT shop might have needs for very small databases that make Oracle less cost-effective as a solution. But if you need something that must scale up to really big sizes, go Oracle.

A word about certification: Ick. HR departments love certifications. And some (most?) managers love certifications. Real DBAs don't, because they realize that they don't mean anything. We've all had to deal with "experts" who were certified in some product--only to discover that they didn't know what they were doing. Certifications exist for one reason--to make a company some money. Do you think Oracle will "sell" more certifications if people can't pass the tests easily? Yes, this is a loaded question.

No, of course, not. In any case, what's the best way to appease your P.H.B. (besides fake budget reports, of course)?

Sometimes, you can't ever appease the PHB (hence, the Dilbert publishing empire). I have seen really great people in IT get screwed by managers who had some other agenda besides doing what's best for the organization. The best way to appease a PHB is to kiss its ass and make it (the PHB) look good.

As a DBA, the best thing you can do for the organization is to bring up technical issues and back up your answers / suggestions / technical policies / recommendations with solid research. And document, document, document. This not only helps the organization when you leave (or are on vacation, etc.), but it's also a great C.Y.A. Just like a financial transaction, get everything in writing. (Like the "Get out of Jail free" card the Presidential advisor waves in Harrison Ford's face at the end of Clear and Present Danger). If management asks you to do something really assinine, you can (1) do it, (2) do a "end run" to their higher-ups stating the dangers, or (3) smile politely and say, "Put that request in writing and I'll do it." Or some combination of all three. Each have their advantages and disadvantages. It's your judgment call and the more experience you have, the better your judgments will probably be.

It think it depends on my relative skill. I'm really good, staying a DBA wouldn't be so bad. If I'm average to good, management may be an option. At least I wouldn't be a P.H.B.

It would be nice to have good DBAs in management; maybe that would help change some of that bad "culture" a bit (at least in places where it needs changing).

As for not being a PHB: we thank you for that! I have to supervise three people (in addition to my DBA work). And I work to make sure I'm not straying too close to PHB territory! I'm very lucky, because the three people I supervise are really good, so it's not too difficult. And the other two supervisors in my area help out (we give each other reality checks if we're acting stupidly).

Thanks!

You are very welcome. If you want anymore information, you can email me or PM me via EN World. Or just post here; I will try to check as the thread progresses....

In sum, it's a great job. But, like any job, the shop you do it in can make a world of difference!

 

[Bront]

I make an "okay" salary at my current job, $11 an hour, good for entry-level support, bad sometimes for the many hats I sometimes have to wear. My next job I'd hope to make $15 an hour with some certs and more experience, is that practical with operations support?

Well, I don't know your area, but I haven't made that little since 1998/99. I say I don't know your area, in that some locations (Chicago, New York, LA) tend to pay a bit more than others (Hicksville, USA). But, depending on where you work, you could find a 'help desk/support' job that pays about $20 or more, and operations support could be more or less depending on the environment. My scale is currently a bit higher because I work in a Bank and on more critical transfers, so they're willing to pay a bit more.

Technicaly, my title is "Open Systems Analyst II", my previous title (Help desk that was turning into system admin) was "Systems Support Specialist". Not that tittles mean much.

 

[ssampier]

SQL Server Express: http://msdn.microsoft.com/sql/express/default.aspx ; if you look around a bit you can get a time-limitted full version of SQL Server.

Downloaded and installed. Thanks.

 

[ssampier]

Well, I don't know your area, but I haven't made that little since 1998/99. I say I don't know your area, in that some locations (Chicago, New York, LA) tend to pay a bit more than others (Hicksville, USA). But, depending on where you work, you could find a 'help desk/support' job that pays about $20 or more, and operations support could be more or less depending on the environment. My scale is currently a bit higher because I work in a Bank and on more critical transfers, so they're willing to pay a bit more.

Technicaly, my title is "Open Systems Analyst II", my previous title (Help desk that was turning into system admin) was "Systems Support Specialist". Not that tittles mean much.

I'm in Hicksville, USA. The pay is decent for the rural area, but as I've stated, it's draining. I'd like a full time job with benefits. I think once I finished my tenure here (probably in another year) I will broaden my search nationwide (ideally the Salt Lake valley where some of my former roomies live).

 

[ssampier]

Kill them all and let the DBMS sort 'em out.

I said so.

Now, to reduce my FQ (Flippancy Quotient) and give you a real answer. You really don't need to pick Oracle. (But if you want big databases, Oracle's where to specialize. And Oracle on Unix just rocks.)

Good to know. If I decide to go the Oracle route, what's the best advice for getting started?

What you really should do, however, is learn Oracle + become a top notch Oracle DBA guru (you will know you've made it when you are asked to join the Oak Table) and then learn other databases (while keeping current with Oracle products). You will be able to give clients what they really need, instead of just pushing one product line. That's the problem today--most people push one (Oracle! Oracle ! Oracle!) or the other (SQL Server! SQL Server! SQL Server!) or the other (Ingres! Ingres! Ingres...

That's an excellent point, especially valid if I go for a consultant or managerial role.

A word about certification: Ick. HR departments love certifications. And some (most?) managers love certifications. Real DBAs don't, because they realize that they don't mean anything. We've all had to deal with "experts" who were certified in some product--only to discover that they didn't know what they were doing. Certifications exist for one reason--to make a company some money. Do you think Oracle will "sell" more certifications if people can't pass the tests easily? Yes, this is a loaded question.

True, but HR like them and it's good to make HR people happy (the aforemention P.H.B.). I'll probably get my A+, Network +, and MCDBA certs. I probably wouldn't bother with an Oracle cert, unless an employer wanted to pay for it.

Sometimes, you can't ever appease the PHB (hence, the Dilbert publishing empire). I have seen really great people in IT get screwed by managers who had some other agenda besides doing what's best for the organization. The best way to appease a PHB is to kiss its ass and make it (the PHB) look good.

*mentally filing information*

It would be nice to have good DBAs in management; maybe that would help change some of that bad "culture" a bit (at least in places where it needs changing).

As for not being a PHB: we thank you for that! I have to supervise three people (in addition to my DBA work). And I work to make sure I'm not straying too close to PHB territory! I'm very lucky, because the three people I supervise are really good, so it's not too difficult. And the other two supervisors in my area help out (we give each other reality checks if we're acting stupidly).

I am not counting my chickens quite yet, but it's one option out of many. I do pride myself, however, in keeping myself informed.

You are very welcome. If you want anymore information, you can email me or PM me via EN World. Or just post here; I will try to check as the thread progresses....

In sum, it's a great job. But, like any job, the shop you do it in can make a world of difference!

Sounds neat. I am quite excited about the possibilities; data models, yah!

By the way, where can I learn about database analyst career? I did some google searches, but I found a few places that consider the DBA and analyst the same career function.

 

[der_kluge]

By the way, where can I learn about database analyst career? I did some google searches, but I found a few places that consider the DBA and analyst the same career function.

They are usually referred to as "data analysts" or "data modelers" and are not the same thing as "database administrators" (DBAs).

Try searching for just "data analyst" or maybe "data modeling" or "first normal form" to get a better understanding of what data modeling is all about.

DAs and DBAs often work together very closely, but DAs often require many more "soft" skills because they have to gather requirements from clients.

 

[ssampier]

They are usually referred to as "data analysts" or "data modelers" and are not the same thing as "database administrators" (DBAs).

Try searching for just "data analyst" or maybe "data modeling" or "first normal form" to get a better understanding of what data modeling is all about.

DAs and DBAs often work together very closely, but DAs often require many more "soft" skills because they have to gather requirements from clients.

I didn't find much information about the data modeling (data analyst) career, but I did find a few good articles on the "nuts and bolts" of data modeling; interesting stuff. When I did my brief job in website design I actually like designing user forms and interfaces.

As for the 1NF, I have read many articles on normalization since I'm tackling those issues in my own database.

 

[nerfherder]

They are usually referred to as "data analysts" or "data modelers" and are not the same thing as "database administrators" (DBAs).

Try searching for just "data analyst" or maybe "data modeling" or "first normal form" to get a better understanding of what data modeling is all about.

DAs and DBAs often work together very closely, but DAs often require many more "soft" skills because they have to gather requirements from clients.

Sometimes a name is just a name though. We have people that our management call DBAs who others would call data analysts. You often have to dig through the job description, rather than just go by the title.

Cheers,
Liam