CG vs. LE: Chaotic Good is Victorious!

[Gansk]

I think we had a debate about how one can determine whether spells are still active, but I'll just make it easy on you and tell you that they come back.

Next for LE: a grimweird. (MM III) E-mail coming up.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Next for LE: a grimweird. (MM III) E-mail coming up.

Not so fast.

As the newly appointed Rules Lawyer for Lawful Evil, I must object. If Pakin's spells were rendered suppressed, then clearly Pakin's Alternate Form was rendered suppressed. I'd like to submit an affadavit that expresses the opinion that Pakin should be in humanoid form as he attacks with the slam and be forced to continue said action as an unarmed attack, thus provoking an AoO from my client (if my client was armed at the time, which quite honestly I'm not sure--the court records were not provided in time for my review of this case).

The defense rests.

 

[Gansk]

Ohh, I forgot Su abilities are negated by antimagic shell.

In that case, the judge changes his mind and rules that the spells were in effect because Pakin was 10 feet away. Doc dies on the same round anyway.

(Bang) Case dismissed!

 

[Infiniti2000]

!

Why, I never!

 

[Gansk]

The next time you and PJSlavner sucker me into one side of a rules debate without explaining the consequences of adopting said side, I'll hold you both in contempt!

 

[PJSlavner]

Not so fast.

As the newly appointed Rules Lawyer for Lawful Evil, I must object. If Pakin's spells were rendered suppressed, then clearly Pakin's Alternate Form was rendered suppressed. I'd like to submit an affadavit that expresses the opinion that Pakin should be in humanoid form as he attacks with the slam and be forced to continue said action as an unarmed attack, thus provoking an AoO from my client (if my client was armed at the time, which quite honestly I'm not sure--the court records were not provided in time for my review of this case).

The defense rests.

I thought of this also, but the following paragraph is from each of the eladrins' entries from the Monster Manual (pages 94-94), with only one word being different (twice).

From second paragraph of Alternate Form (Su):

" A ghaele (bralani) remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, nor does the ghaele (bralani) revert to any particular form when killed. A true seeing spell or ability, however, reveals both forms simultaneously."

The above paragraph strongly implies that neither form for an eladrin is its 'true' form, but that either form is a normal form for the eladrin. I submit that an antimagic field would keep an eladrin from changing forms, but would not cause it to change from one form to another.

Until I read the eladrin entries, I thought the same as Infiniti. I would not have even looked if I had been able to find the Alternate Form (Su) ability in the Monster Manual the first time I looked for it. I did not find it because Alternate Form (Su) is not in alphabetical order (it is before Air Subtype, and I was looking between Alignment and Angel Subtype).

Gansk, I did not think I should mention the other side, because, by the time I posted that the spells should not work, I had already read the eladrin entry.

Doc does not die because bludgeoning weapons deal non-lethal damage to him. That should be of some consolation.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I thought of this also, but the following paragraph is from each of the eladrins' entries from the Monster Manual (pages 94-94), with only one word being different (twice).

But, did you read the errata on Alternate Form? It modifies the entries.

A creature using alternate form reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape.

 

[PJSlavner]

Yes, I did, but that is for creatures with one natural form, like lycanthropes, whose natural form is that of a humanoid or giant. My point was an eladrin does not have one natural form (I used the word 'true' instead of natural), but that either form is its natural form. My interpretation was that the paragraph I cited superceded reverting into a natural form for the above reason.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I think that both forms should be considered natural forms, since the Eldrin goes out of its way to say that it does not revert to a particular form after death, and that true seeing shows both forms.

 

[ugulu]

An edict is issued to kill all the lawyers. Unfortunately it is tied up in pretrial technicalities.

Next into the arena is a withered, aged human who crackles with dark light - light that seems to be holding him together. His bones seem to have shrunk, like the muscles can't hold them up. He stands a towering 5 ft tall, and must weigh a solid 90 lbs. Yoda steps in to 115n115e and concentrates.[sblock]Summon 1d3 Bearded Devils (ZZ1, ZZ2, and ZZ3). First to appear at 110n100e, second at 110n115e, last a 115n110e; all will immediately rage, and ready their glaives to attack if sparkles comes into reach.[/sblock]