D&D 5E Chaladin

[Remathilis]

Nevermind, Can't read.

 

[gyor]

The Cavalier Chaladin as I said can be Chaladin, abit with some difficulties. The other Paladin's put Charisma first, but if they want any accuracy at all, they're going to have to burn spells slots on either boosting thier attack rolls or if they invest some in Strenth, say 14 a +2 modifier, they can take a feat and/or use magic to get advantage.

Still I think fans of the Chaladin are tying to avoid having 2 must have stats, not having to boost strength means more feats.

 

[pemerton]

I think fans of the Chaladin are tying to avoid having 2 must have stats, not having to boost strength means more feats.

When I think of the CHA-paladin, I don't think so much stat-optimisation (for instance, the paladin in my 4e game suffers for not having a decent Athletics bonus) as story orientation: the CHA-paladin is bestowed with grace.

The concept of a CHA-driven spellcaster who wears heavy armor and weilds a sword and casts healing and defensive magic might be entirely possible without a specific Paladin subclass.

You seem to be describing a warlock rather than a paladin.

 

[I'm A Banana]

You seem to be describing a warlock rather than a paladin.

To-may-to, to-mah-to.

Don't get me wrong, getting hung up on class names and titles is as legit as anything else, but "I want to play a character in heavy armor with a sword and a shield who uses CHA as a main attack stat!" is a different problem from "I want to play a character in heavy armor with a sword and a shield who uses CHA as a main attack stat! And the rulebooks need to call that a Paladin!"

The first is something that 5e might still be able to do. The second....well, it might still do it, but if the criminal piratesAlpha reports are anything to go by, it sounds like the last best hope for that is DMG stuff in November.

Rampant speculation from me, but I'd also be surprised if warlocks had much in the way of healing or defensive magic in the PHB, so I'm not sure the warlock would quite do that. Sounds like Celestial-pact possibility space for later though! Further blurring the lines between Warlock and Cleric.

 

[pemerton]

"I want to play a character in heavy armor with a sword and a shield who uses CHA as a main attack stat!" is a different problem from "I want to play a character in heavy armor with a sword and a shield who uses CHA as a main attack stat! And the rulebooks need to call that a Paladin!"

It's not about name in a rulebook. It's about fiction in play. For instance, paladins give of themselves. Warlocks take from others. If the mechanics do even a half-baked job of expressing this, a heavily-armoured healing warlock is not going to play much like a paladin.

 

[Manbearcat]

Don't get me wrong, getting hung up on class names and titles is as legit as anything else, but "I want to play a character in heavy armor with a sword and a shield who uses CHA as a main attack stat!" is a different problem from "I want to play a character in heavy armor with a sword and a shield who uses CHA as a main attack stat! And the rulebooks need to call that a Paladin!"

It's not about name in a rulebook. It's about fiction in play. For instance, paladins give of themselves. Warlocks take from others. If the mechanics do even a half-baked job of expressing this, a heavily-armoured healing warlock is not going to play much like a paladin.

Contrast the guy that does

HotFK p231

Soul Feast
[h=1]Your eyes glow a fiery red as you restore your vitality by stealing soul energy from a vanquished foe—energy meant for devilish beings.[/h]At-Will

Arcane
Free Action Personal
Trigger: You reduce an enemy to 0 hit points, or an enemy adjacent to you drops to 0 hit points.
Effect: You gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier.

and

HotFK p231

Mists of Madness
[h=1]A thick mist rises around you. Within it, the intoxicating power of fey magic overwhelms your enemies’ senses, driving those foes to lash out at each other in their madness.[/h]Daily

Arcane, Charm, Implement, Psychic
Standard Action Close burst 1
Target: Each enemy in the burst
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: 1d6 + Charisma modifier psychic damage, and the target makes a melee basic attack as a free action against a creature of your choice.
Effect: If you miss every target, the power is not expended.

with the guy that does

PHB p91

Lay On Hands
[h=1]Your divine touch instantly heals wounds.[/h]At-Will

Divine, Healing
Minor Action Melee touch
Special: You can use this power a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), but only once per round.
Target: One creature
Effect: You spend a healing surge but regain no hit points. Instead, the target regains hit points as if it had spent a healing surge. You must have at least one healing surge remaining to use this power.

and

Divine Power p 84

Glorious Charge
[h=1]You wade into battle and urge your allies to greater heights.[/h]Daily

Divine, Healing, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon

Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. AC
Hit: 2[W] + Charisma modifier damage.
Effect: After the attack, each ally within 2 squares of you regains hit points equal to one-half your level + your Wisdom modifier.
Special: When charging, you can use this power in place of a melee basic attack.

More like to-may-to and spin-ich.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It's not about name in a rulebook. It's about fiction in play. For instance, paladins give of themselves. Warlocks take from others. If the mechanics do even a half-baked job of expressing this, a heavily-armoured healing warlock is not going to play much like a paladin

What I posited as one possible Chaladin-equivalent was

a CHA-driven spellcaster who wears heavy armor and weilds a sword and casts healing and defensive magic

You said that sounded like a Warlock. If that sounds like a warlock to you, then this warlock gives to others.

Contrast

Sure. Those last two sound exactly like what I proposed as "a CHA-driven spellcaster who wears heavy armor and weilds a sword and casts healing and defensive magic." Exactly like what pemerton said sounded like a Warlock.

 

[Manbearcat]

Sure. Those last two sound exactly like what I proposed as "a CHA-driven spellcaster who wears heavy armor and weilds a sword and casts healing and defensive magic." Exactly like what pemerton said sounded like a Warlock.

The problem is the "casts healing and defensive magic" married to "not Paladin" or a "Celestial Pact" for more refinement. Those keywords have strong implications on archetype. For instance, in 4e, that would connote subbing Divine for Arcane (and all that comes with Deity vs Patron...huge change in the thematics) and Prayer for Spell.

Now that change would be survivable in isolation as you could just refluff the thematics in a system such as 4e. However, problems arise with potential knock-on effects in a system where those descriptors carry hard-coded mechanical weight (such as classic D&D does and 5e appears to be following that mold) that cannot so easily be decoupled. Further, whereas a Warlock takes from others to sustain himself, a Paladin sacrifices of himself to sustain others. Whereas a Warlock flits about the battlefield insubstantially, the Paladin willfully makes himself a substantial, palpable wall of divine will that interposes itself between his enemies and his allies. Again, in a system with tactical heft (such as D&D), the manifestation in play will be stark in contrast. Detaching and resetting a few keywords won't do the trick in such a scenario.

 

[pemerton]

What I posited as one possible Chaladin-equivalent was



You said that sounded like a Warlock. If that sounds like a warlock to you, then this warlock gives to others.



Sure. Those last two sound exactly like what I proposed as "a CHA-driven spellcaster who wears heavy armor and weilds a sword and casts healing and defensive magic." Exactly like what pemerton said sounded like a Warlock.

What I said was "you seem to be describing a warlock". And I didn't say that in a vacuum. I said that in the context of my knowledge of 5e, and what it means to be "a CHA-driven spellcaster" in that system.

If you had something in mind that is not a warlock - eg a sorcerer variant with a divine bloodline, heavy armour, swords and defensive and healing magic - then by all means elaborate.

 

[I'm A Banana]

If you had something in mind that is not a warlock - eg a sorcerer variant with a divine bloodline, heavy armour, swords and defensive and healing magic - then by all means elaborate.

In order for me to describe how one might be a Chaladin in 5e, it depends on what things about the Chaladin were definitive to you. This can vary.

If what one wants out of a character is heavy armor, swords, and defensive and healing magic in non-DMG'd Official 5e, there's no reason to believe that the actual 5e Paladin class will not supply that, as paladins in all e's do.

If what you want is to have that character emphasize having a high Charisma, our Alpha informants tell us that paladin has Charisma-keyed spellcasting and Cha bonus to attack rolls if you're the Devotion-style paladin.

If you want that character to be able to basically have a CHA of 20 and never really worry about other ability scores (for instance, have weapon attacks use CHA instead of STR), I imagine that'll take some DMG-ing. It seems entirely in the realm of reasonable options to have a class define its weapon attack rolls with some other ability score (finesse weapons already swap STR for DEX, it shouldn't be a big deal to swap STR for whatever). The ability score cap means there's only so much a character can get out of just pumping up one score to max anyway. Once you've maxed it out, you'll just find yourself probably using feats more than boosts to your other ability scores.

Of course, there's other ways. You could be a bard using cure spells and buffs in heavy armor with a fighter level or a feat. You could be a War cleric and swap WIS spellcasting for CHA spellcasting (again, it's pretty reasonable to swap these ability scores around). It depends on what you liked about the Chaladin's mechanics in the first place.

And then there's purely hypothetical things like celestial-pact warlocks or celestial-blooded sorcerers or an invoker-style wizard school (all of which seem in the realm of possibility to me, though I don't imagine they'll be in the PHB).

But by far the easiest way is just to be a paladin, and make your STR and CHA your highest scores, and not worry about the rest of it.