D&D 5E Champion Fighter level 11 only one shot with crossbow?

[MerricB]

Cool - I'll add it in!

 

[Mouseferatu]

Drawing a thrown weapon isn't like using ammunition; it counts as your item interaction for the turn.

Hmm. I guess by RAW, that's true, but it hadn't occurred to me, and now that it does, I think I'm going to house-rule it out of my own campaigns. I see no reason to (effectively) punish Strength-throwers over Dex-shooters, and I don't see why it'd be harder (for instance) to grab a throwing axe off a bandoleer than it would be to yank an arrow out of a quiver.

 

[Hriston]

Hmm. I guess by RAW, that's true, but it hadn't occurred to me, and now that it does, I think I'm going to house-rule it out of my own campaigns. I see no reason to (effectively) punish Strength-throwers over Dex-shooters, and I don't see why it'd be harder (for instance) to grab a throwing axe off a bandoleer than it would be to yank an arrow out of a quiver.

On this point, I think it was pretty much standard back in the day for a javelin thrower to hold several javelins in his off-hand and pass them into his other hand for throwing. Would this type of action count as an item interaction?

 

[Clancey]

Yep. Bows are for traditional fighter types, because they're proficient and they can make lots of attacks. Crossbows are for utility fighters (rogues and clerics) who only ever get one attack anyway, and generally aren't proficient in longbows.

Yes, I use a light crossbow with my Rogue in another campaign and he is pretty deadly with it. He just made 5th level tonight, so 3d6 here he comes!

To answer why I used the crossbow - the Champion Fighter of the OP was out of javelins and on an extended underground campaign. It would be cool if he could throw his battle axe like the guys who do Logging games, but in the game it would'nt be effective. Maybe they could make that happen with a feat. That would really be cool if the fighter was an Eldritch Knight with it being a bonded weapon - I'm talking to you Thor!!

 

[Celtavian]

Hmm. I guess by RAW, that's true, but it hadn't occurred to me, and now that it does, I think I'm going to house-rule it out of my own campaigns. I see no reason to (effectively) punish Strength-throwers over Dex-shooters, and I don't see why it'd be harder (for instance) to grab a throwing axe off a bandoleer than it would be to yank an arrow out of a quiver.

I agree.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

One thing your article missed about the sling: It's the only ammunition weapon that is neither loading nor two-handed. You can fire multiple attacks while equipping a shield or leaving a hand free for ready spellcasting!

It amuses me that there are lots, and lots, and lots, of threads on various forums where people foam at the mouth "you can't load a hand crossbow one-handed" yet I think a sling would be harder to load one-handed. Also, rules-as-written, a level 20 fighter can fire a sling four times a round while only firing a hand crossbow once.

My experience with a sling is that it is not just point-and-shoot - it takes a few seconds to wind up to a good speed before you can loose the missile.

It is also a *lot* harder to learn to aim well with a sling than a hand crossbow, yet in the game the sling is simple and the crossbow martial.

 

[famousringo]

It amuses me that there are lots, and lots, and lots, of threads on various forums where people foam at the mouth "you can't load a hand crossbow one-handed" yet I think a sling would be harder to load one-handed. Also, rules-as-written, a level 20 fighter can fire a sling four times a round while only firing a hand crossbow once.

My experience with a sling is that it is not just point-and-shoot - it takes a few seconds to wind up to a good speed before you can loose the missile.

It is also a *lot* harder to learn to aim well with a sling than a hand crossbow, yet in the game the sling is simple and the crossbow martial.

It's true that a sling requires a minimal amount of dexterity with a second hand to load, but it's easily accomplished even while holding a shield, as this guy demonstrates:
http://youtu.be/gXiUDJRgiUc

Slipping a stone into a cup is perhaps a little more cumbersome than nocking an arrow, but it's nothing like loading a crossbow, which requires a least one limb to brace the crossbow and another to apply considerable force to a lever or crank, and often a third or even fourth limb gets involved at some point.

Crucially, once the stone is in place, actually firing a sling can be accomplished with a single hand. And whirling it around for a few seconds is not necessary. Many slingers will give it a revolution or two to seat the stone (takes less than one second), but a skilled slinger can launch it with a single revolution, like this guy:

http://youtu.be/fWHV2WYdfTI

You're right about accuracy, though. Crossbow is far more accurate even with basically no training. The being said, the PHB probably underestimates the effective range of a sling in skilled hands, which was said to out range bows on some ancient battlefields.

I assume the fact that some crossbows are martial reflects the strength and technique required to draw them, just as the longbow is martial even though it's based on the same principles as the shortbow. And yeah, game balance, I guess.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

On this point, I think it was pretty much standard back in the day for a javelin thrower to hold several javelins in his off-hand and pass them into his other hand for throwing. Would this type of action count as an item interaction?

I'd probably allow it without an item interaction. I stick to rules on item interactions, but since there is an absence of a specific rule in the case of moving items from hand to hand, I count it as essentially free.

 

[Coredump]

It's true that a sling requires a minimal amount of dexterity with a second hand to load, but it's easily accomplished even while holding a shield, as this guy demonstrates:
http://youtu.be/gXiUDJRgiUc

That video is a far cry from showing that it is "easily accomplished". In fact, by the end he says that most slingers never used a sling, and even the skirmishers would 'run forward, fire, then run back to reload" If it was "easily accomplished" there would be no need to run back and forth.

From a rules perspective, even he says you will need two hands to load, he is just using the same hand that holds the shield to also help load.

 

[Iosue]

Hmm. I guess by RAW, that's true, but it hadn't occurred to me, and now that it does, I think I'm going to house-rule it out of my own campaigns. I see no reason to (effectively) punish Strength-throwers over Dex-shooters, and I don't see why it'd be harder (for instance) to grab a throwing axe off a bandoleer than it would be to yank an arrow out of a quiver.

I disagree with MerricB's read of the rules.* I don't think the list Interactions with Objects Around You (which includes drawing or sheathing a sword) was meant to be a list of things limited to one free interaction, but rather simply a non-exhaustive of things that didn't require the PC to use their action. It was meant to be freeing, rather than limiting. A clear statement that you didn't have to use an action to draw or sheathe a sword, you could just do it at the same time as your move or your other action.

If a fighter with extra attacks can pull an arrow from a quiver, nock it, draw, and shoot for each of their attacks, without being limited to one arrow per turn, then I think they draw and throw multiple javelins per turn, too, provided they have a similar kind of set-up.

*Which is not to say that he is wrong. This is very much one of those "DM's call" kind of things.