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Character Submission Thread
- Thread starter perrinmiller
- Start date
I think replacement characters only need one approval, but I'm putting him here just in case:
Weel Naxel, my attempt at someone to replace Nathan, is in a state for feedback. Mostly that means, after building him with three different Mysteries and a (now discarded) archetype to try to get the flavor I was after, I have to stop looking at him or my eyes will burn out.
Provided he doesn't look like a quick suicide-by-first-encounter (I honestly don't have a head for it any more at this point. Everything I tried seemed to have a giant weak spot waiting to make him useless), I'll dump him in the Dunn Wright probably sometime tomorrow with an eye toward joining the 7th/8th level adventure that's getting ready to start.
Weel Naxel, my attempt at someone to replace Nathan, is in a state for feedback. Mostly that means, after building him with three different Mysteries and a (now discarded) archetype to try to get the flavor I was after, I have to stop looking at him or my eyes will burn out.
Provided he doesn't look like a quick suicide-by-first-encounter (I honestly don't have a head for it any more at this point. Everything I tried seemed to have a giant weak spot waiting to make him useless), I'll dump him in the Dunn Wright probably sometime tomorrow with an eye toward joining the 7th/8th level adventure that's getting ready to start.
Aura
Explorer
Reviewing Weel Naxel
This is a non-judge review of Weel Naxel by jkason. In the event he only needs 1 approval (and it must come from a judge), this defaults to a set of comments. Hopefully it will be helpful in that case.
Weel is a really well done example of a character with concept and mechanics tightly bound. I find those neat. Weel is also 8th level, which makes reviewing a bit extra work. Such is life.
Have I ever mentioned I like characters?
Potential Problems:
* Best I can tell from both the Core and Ultimate Equipment books, Mithral armors do not alter the proficiency required to wear them. This may present a problem, as oracles do not normally have access to heavy armor. Note: The Skill at Arms revelation grants heavy armor proficiency.
Notation Issues/Typos/Calculated Values:
* It's worth noting the damage bonus of Power Attack is multiplied by 1.5 on two handed weapons, so Weel would be -2/+6 in that case.
* With a Str Mod of +5, it looks like your Climb and Swim each should be 1 higher.
* Mithral armor is a bit vague on whether the masterwork bonus stacks or is included in the Mithral bonus. (Whatever the judges think, I'm happy either way.) However, you don't have to pay 150gp regardless of that issue: the masterwork fee is included in the 9000gp you paid.
* Given the possibility of being in a fight without Magic Vestment up, I'd express it as a conditional +2 AC and not include it in the base.
* I get somewhat different totals on two weapons: Morningstar I get 1d8+7 (vs 1d4+8) and thrown dagger I get 1d4+5 (vs 1d4+1). I saw a footnote on the thrown dagger line that I couldn't find a matching note later in the text.
* I get a total weight carried of 60 lbs (vs 59), although he is so strong it's barely an issue.
* I get a total Kn
lanes of 11 (vs 10).
Comments:
* I'm not sure how tightly deities are dealt with in the LPF context. The greater mystery is whether there is a known deity behind the jibber jabbers. Is Weel 'underwritten' by a divine force?
* I know the feeling of rewriting character ideas. For me, what happens is I tinker, tinker, then throw the whole thing and go with something more vanilla. I don't know why.
* It's neat to see custom artwork, which helps bind everything together even better. Kudos on that.
Have to tie this short (more time was spent in checking things than typing on this one), but I hope it helps. I'm gonna say NOT YET (particularly considering the heavy armor issue, assuming there isn't an explanation I'm failing to see) for now while it's figured out how many reviews Weel needs.
This is a non-judge review of Weel Naxel by jkason. In the event he only needs 1 approval (and it must come from a judge), this defaults to a set of comments. Hopefully it will be helpful in that case.
Weel is a really well done example of a character with concept and mechanics tightly bound. I find those neat. Weel is also 8th level, which makes reviewing a bit extra work. Such is life.
Have I ever mentioned I like characters?
Potential Problems:
* Best I can tell from both the Core and Ultimate Equipment books, Mithral armors do not alter the proficiency required to wear them. This may present a problem, as oracles do not normally have access to heavy armor. Note: The Skill at Arms revelation grants heavy armor proficiency.
Notation Issues/Typos/Calculated Values:
* It's worth noting the damage bonus of Power Attack is multiplied by 1.5 on two handed weapons, so Weel would be -2/+6 in that case.
* With a Str Mod of +5, it looks like your Climb and Swim each should be 1 higher.
* Mithral armor is a bit vague on whether the masterwork bonus stacks or is included in the Mithral bonus. (Whatever the judges think, I'm happy either way.) However, you don't have to pay 150gp regardless of that issue: the masterwork fee is included in the 9000gp you paid.
* Given the possibility of being in a fight without Magic Vestment up, I'd express it as a conditional +2 AC and not include it in the base.
* I get somewhat different totals on two weapons: Morningstar I get 1d8+7 (vs 1d4+8) and thrown dagger I get 1d4+5 (vs 1d4+1). I saw a footnote on the thrown dagger line that I couldn't find a matching note later in the text.
* I get a total weight carried of 60 lbs (vs 59), although he is so strong it's barely an issue.
* I get a total Kn
lanes of 11 (vs 10).Comments:
* I'm not sure how tightly deities are dealt with in the LPF context. The greater mystery is whether there is a known deity behind the jibber jabbers. Is Weel 'underwritten' by a divine force?
* I know the feeling of rewriting character ideas. For me, what happens is I tinker, tinker, then throw the whole thing and go with something more vanilla. I don't know why.
* It's neat to see custom artwork, which helps bind everything together even better. Kudos on that.
Have to tie this short (more time was spent in checking things than typing on this one), but I hope it helps. I'm gonna say NOT YET (particularly considering the heavy armor issue, assuming there isn't an explanation I'm failing to see) for now while it's figured out how many reviews Weel needs.
Thanks for all the catches. I'll have to take a look at them tomorrow. But for now, figured I'd respond to this one, since I do have a plan, but I suppose I should ask it explicitly:
I dug around all over the place when building Weel, and all I found on nonproficiency is that you take the ACP on all physical skills + attacks. It's a little wonky putting it all together, but I figured it this way:
Normal plate = -6 ACP
MW reduces that to -5
Mithral reduces that another three to -2
Armor Expert takes it to -1
Armor Mastery reduces it one more to 0.
So, he's nonproficient, but the penalty he has to take for that is 0.
It's a lot of sideways stuff to get there when he could take Skill At Arms, but armor mastery and iron weapon just seemed to fit better thematically (never taking his armor off, he'd grow accustomed to it, and he's not really good with weapons so much as the weapons he calls up are attuned to him), which made SaA really redundant, especially since the ACP was going to be pretty low, so I took a fairly circuitous route to do with his armor essentially what I'm trying to do with his weapons: it's not that he really knows how to move around in regular heavy armor, it's that this custom-worn armor he's clanking around in is nearly a second skin to him.
And thanks for the compliment on the sketch. I had a lot of fun coming up with the mix-matched elements of it.
I dug around all over the place when building Weel, and all I found on nonproficiency is that you take the ACP on all physical skills + attacks. It's a little wonky putting it all together, but I figured it this way:
Normal plate = -6 ACP
MW reduces that to -5
Mithral reduces that another three to -2
Armor Expert takes it to -1
Armor Mastery reduces it one more to 0.
So, he's nonproficient, but the penalty he has to take for that is 0.
It's a lot of sideways stuff to get there when he could take Skill At Arms, but armor mastery and iron weapon just seemed to fit better thematically (never taking his armor off, he'd grow accustomed to it, and he's not really good with weapons so much as the weapons he calls up are attuned to him), which made SaA really redundant, especially since the ACP was going to be pretty low, so I took a fairly circuitous route to do with his armor essentially what I'm trying to do with his weapons: it's not that he really knows how to move around in regular heavy armor, it's that this custom-worn armor he's clanking around in is nearly a second skin to him.
And thanks for the compliment on the sketch. I had a lot of fun coming up with the mix-matched elements of it.
Aura
Explorer
Re: Weel
Ah, I am still in the habit of dealing with armor proficiencies as a hard list instead of a modifier, so I didn't see that. Kinda a bad habit, considering how long ago that change was made. Clever move on your part. Sorry for the error.
That resolved, a few minor edits should tidy it up nicely.
Ah, I am still in the habit of dealing with armor proficiencies as a hard list instead of a modifier, so I didn't see that. Kinda a bad habit, considering how long ago that change was made. Clever move on your part. Sorry for the error.
That resolved, a few minor edits should tidy it up nicely.
Maidhc O Casain
Na Bith Mo Riocht Tá!
I think the MW reduction of the ACP is part of the -3 granted by the Mithril. I can't find a place where the rules call that out specifically, it's purely based on other instances (MW attack bonuses being subsumed into magical attack bonuses for weapons, and the extra cost for MW being subsumed into the cost for Mithril items, for example).
Any other judges have opinions or facts regarding this?
Any other judges have opinions or facts regarding this?
perrinmiller
Adventurer
Yes, mithral weapons/armor are automatically Masterwork and that is included in the cost and bonuses. So jkason's math is off by one. Mithral Plate has ACP of -3. Just look up the Mithral Plate of Speed and you will see.
Argh. Okay, well, no one look at Weel for a while, then. I have to decide whether I want to try going with the penalty or pumping his armor revelation with FC bonus. I'm thinking it'll have to be the latter. I hate losing the HP, but with his BAB progression, I'm not sure he can afford extra penalties that don't come with compensations. And I sort of feel like he needs as much protection as he can get for similar reason...
Will ponder and post here when I figure it out. I assumed while they were saying that cost was included, they would have noted that ACP reductions were, as well, since they DO make that explicit with weapon bonuses. But digging around other specific Mithral items in d20pfsrd, my poor rules-fu continues. Sorry about the mix up, guys.
Will ponder and post here when I figure it out. I assumed while they were saying that cost was included, they would have noted that ACP reductions were, as well, since they DO make that explicit with weapon bonuses. But digging around other specific Mithral items in d20pfsrd, my poor rules-fu continues. Sorry about the mix up, guys.
Okay, I think I've resolved stuff re: Weel, so he should be ready to look at again:
Ooh, thanks! I don't play melee fighters much, so I didn't even notice the extra bump to PA for two handers.
Thanks much for the other math catches, as well. A fair number of them were from all the switching I was doing (so I had old values from a previous version, and didn't catch all the ripples from a given change).
I did go ahead and use FC to bump Armor Mastery and negate the ACP. I feel like the extra AC is probably going to help this character more than 4 hit points in the long run, and like I said, with subpar BAB, I'm leery of any penalties if I can avoid them (same reason I had him take Furious Focus instead of the metamagic feats I'd been considering).
Sort of...? Weel's partially an intensifying of the concept I was using for Nathan's magic: his father's celestial blood has drawn unseen celestial beings to him. His 'spells' are actually those beings manifesting / acting on his behalf. They're slightly more unruly in Weel's case, though (Haunted curse). I have a notion that they aren't a fan of his not-good alignment / slightly cracked perspective on the world, but are bound to him through his blood.
I also kind of think Weel's doing the magical equivalent of manhandling them into doing what he wants, without realizing that's what he's doing. Which also might not sit well with tiny self-righteous celestials.
There's not a particular deity, though. As far as I can tell, Oracles don't need them (and the fluff text for the class suggests they probably shouldn't worship a particular deity). I added them to the deity line mostly as flavor; I don't intend to start up a religious order of the jibber jabbers.
Ooh, thanks! I don't play melee fighters much, so I didn't even notice the extra bump to PA for two handers.
Thanks much for the other math catches, as well. A fair number of them were from all the switching I was doing (so I had old values from a previous version, and didn't catch all the ripples from a given change).
I did go ahead and use FC to bump Armor Mastery and negate the ACP. I feel like the extra AC is probably going to help this character more than 4 hit points in the long run, and like I said, with subpar BAB, I'm leery of any penalties if I can avoid them (same reason I had him take Furious Focus instead of the metamagic feats I'd been considering).
Sort of...? Weel's partially an intensifying of the concept I was using for Nathan's magic: his father's celestial blood has drawn unseen celestial beings to him. His 'spells' are actually those beings manifesting / acting on his behalf. They're slightly more unruly in Weel's case, though (Haunted curse). I have a notion that they aren't a fan of his not-good alignment / slightly cracked perspective on the world, but are bound to him through his blood.
I also kind of think Weel's doing the magical equivalent of manhandling them into doing what he wants, without realizing that's what he's doing. Which also might not sit well with tiny self-righteous celestials.
There's not a particular deity, though. As far as I can tell, Oracles don't need them (and the fluff text for the class suggests they probably shouldn't worship a particular deity). I added them to the deity line mostly as flavor; I don't intend to start up a religious order of the jibber jabbers.
