Character wealth

[TYPO5478]

How do you use the character wealth rules (found on page 135 of the DMG)? Guidelines? Hard and fast rules? Do you pay any attention to them at all?

I ask because recently my DM has started paying more attention to them (again, evilbob, not griping, just curious ). But his focus has made me really start thinking about those rules in particular. Evilbob mentioned to me that my character was a little bit ahead of the curve. He didn't really say how much, and he did admit that he estimated parts of my character's net worth, so I'm guessing he's in more of the "guidelines" category (or that he's made adjustments to the curve that I don't know about).

But that got me thinking: exactly what should go into that type of calculation and how precise should it be? My personal example: I'm playing a wizard at the moment. Obviously, one of the advantages of being a wizard is the spell variety you can get by copying scrolls into your spellbook. I've done quite a bit of that, to the point that I had filled up all 100 pages of my starting spellbook by 7th level (20 lvl-0 spells, 15 lvl-1, 11 lvl-2, 9 lvl-3, and 4 lvl-4). Now, the DMG says that a 7th level character should have about 19,000 gp in character wealth. Should the gp value of a spellbook be counted toward that total for wizards? In my case, my spellbook would be worth 10,000 gp... more than half of my total. Does that sound right?

There's also the fact that a wizard's wealth can fluctuate from the time he purchases a scroll to the time he copies it into his spellbook, thus:

Spell Level     Scroll Cost     Page(s) Cost
-----------     -----------     ------------
1               25 gp           100 gp
2               150 gp          200 gp
3               375 gp          300 gp
4               700 gp          400 gp
5               1,125 gp        500 gp
6               1,650 gp        600 gp
7               2,275 gp        700 gp
8               3,000 gp        800 gp
9               3,825 gp        900 gp

Copying a level 1 scroll into a spellbook yields a net increase in the character's wealth of 75 gp; copying a level 5 scroll renders a net decrease of 625 gp. Conversely, scribing a scroll (level 3 or higher) from a spellbook can increase character wealth even though the caster is paying to do it. Again, does this seem right?

Another thing my wizard does is craft magical items. In this case, the price is reduced by spending time and XP instead of gold. When calculating character wealth, should you count crafted items at their market price or at their crafted price? If you'd count it at the crafted price, would you do that only for items the crafter made for himself, or for items he made for anyone in the party?

Now for the combo deal: Boccob's Blessed Book allows spells to be written into it without paying the usual 100 gp per page cost. In terms of calculating character wealth, should the pages in a Blessed Book still count at 100 gp per page even though that money wasn't actually spent (after all, they do still have value). If so, should the pages be the only determining factor, or should you include the market (or crafted) price as well?

Feel free to answer generally or specifically. Thanks!

 

[shilsen]

I don't pay much attention to them. My five 13th level PCs are walking around with the kind of wealth recommended for 16th+ level characters, due to a combination of 'normal' magical items, permanent augmentations, and unique magical items. It hasn't caused any problem for me.

One of the reasons I don't bother that much with the wealth guidelines is because trying to follow them stringently - or even stay close - leads to the kind of questions you ask above. And there are no real right answers, so it's a case of the individual DM making a fairly arbitrary choice. Personally, I think that the scribing cost for spellbooks is really far too high. However many spells the wizard has access to, he is limited by the amount of spell slots available. I intentionally gave the wizard in my campaign a special magical item that gives him access to all PHB spells of any levels that he can cast so that he doesn't have to bother with scribing any more, and it's never caused a problem.

 

[Karimere]

Rules Characte Wealth

Hi Typo

In both the campaigns I have played in and those I have refereed where characters have started above level 1, we have used the DMG values for character wealth.

However I would say that the cost of spells in a wizards spell book was not included.

Once in play the wizard would have to pay the cost of transcribing any scrolls bought or found into their spell book, that said other party members would sometimes fund the costs involved, especially if the spell was going to be cast on them to aid their abilities or defence eg: Stoneskin, haste, etc.

In my campaigns I allow our item creating characters to create items for other party members with the xp and gold cost paid for by the fighter for example.

I would say that once a campaign is ongoing many events can both add or subtract from the wealth of a party or its individuals and I am often more concerned with the power of items rather than the gp value.
If the party appears to have too much wealth, have the thieves guild visit them or the tax collectors.
Our group tends to play high magic campaigns so perhaps we do not view being ahead of the DMG table as a problem but each to their own.

As long as everyone is having fun and the challenges the DM is creating still threaten / scare the players for the safety of their characters what does it matter?


Karimere

 

[ThirdWizard]

I don't count spellbooks toward character wealth.

 

[werk]

How do you use the character wealth rules (found on page 135 of the DMG)? Guidelines? Hard and fast rules? Do you pay any attention to them at all?

I feel that they are very important for challenge calculations. If a character is over the wealth guidelines, he's more than his HD would indicate...same with high stats.

While a lot of DMs think it is great to over-reward characters with heroic stats and treasure (even custom made items), I think that usually causes a lot of hardship for the DM as he will soon find that 'appropriate' challenges aren't so challenging. He can adjust upward, but then the characters start living and dying by the dice, even more than usual. Now he has to go through and manually beef up the bad guys to be comparable to the good guys...which is a whole lot of work for the same net result he would have gotten following the guidelines in the first place.

 

[Rhun]

I don't pay much attention to them. My five 13th level PCs are walking around with the kind of wealth recommended for 16th+ level characters, due to a combination of 'normal' magical items, permanent augmentations, and unique magical items. It hasn't caused any problem for me.

I'm with Shilsen...I don't really pay attention to them. Plus, a single item can skew the wealth guidelines completely out of whack, even if the item really isn't all that powerful.

 

[Mistwell]

Just to add a new element into this conversation, the Magic Item Compendium offers a new method for calculationg character wealth. It's not a replcaement for the DMG method, just an alternative. It's MUCH easier to use, and much faster, but it's not as precise. You may well end up with less total GP value of items using the MIC method, though it will include MIC items which are intentionally priced lower so it probably balances out.

In short, the MIC lists an item "level" which is intended for valuation purposes, and your character can choose two items for each level of that character, and can then trade up and down by combining items of various levels for other levels. It's a pretty quick and painless method, and it usually comes out somewhat close to the DMG price valuation (though again I have found on average it comes out a bit less than what the DMG says you should have). I think I will use it for NPCs in the future (since they give a new method for equipping NPCs quickly as well).

 

[robberbaron]

Use them assiduously for new characters then pretty much forget about them.

 

[Pyrex]

Given that the CR system assumes characters of a given level will have a given amount of magical equipment contributing to their overall power, we do track it but as long as any individual character stays within a level or so of their 'expected' value we don't worry about it much.

On the issue of spellbooks and characters above 1st level:
The value of the characters spellbooks (above and beyond the free pages granted by levelling anyway) should be tracked against the Wizard's wealth, as more spells in the spellbook directly tracks to an increase in power, but you shouldn't bill them for the cost of scrolls on top of the cost of the pages.

You don't bill a 9th level PC for scrolls they used from levels 1-8, just because they scribed them into their book instead of casting them shouldn't make a difference.

Yes, this makes the Blessed Book an amazing buy, but having spells to pick from is what makes Wizards Wizards for crying out loud.

 

[TYPO5478]

Just to add a new element into this conversation, the Magic Item Compendium offers a new method for calculationg character wealth. It's not a replcaement for the DMG method, just an alternative. It's MUCH easier to use, and much faster, but it's not as precise. You may well end up with less total GP value of items using the MIC method, though it will include MIC items which are intentionally priced lower so it probably balances out.

In short, the MIC lists an item "level" which is intended for valuation purposes, and your character can choose two items for each level of that character, and can then trade up and down by combining items of various levels for other levels. It's a pretty quick and painless method, and it usually comes out somewhat close to the DMG price valuation (though again I have found on average it comes out a bit less than what the DMG says you should have). I think I will use it for NPCs in the future (since they give a new method for equipping NPCs quickly as well).

You know, I saw that information in the MIC. I skimmed it, but I really didn't understand it very well. Mostly what confused me were the conversion rates. I mean, I get that two items of a certain level "equal" a single item of roughly two or three levels higher (depending upon where you are on the scale). But later there's a table that gives examples of other combinations, like a level 11 item is worth one level 10 and one level 6 item. How did they get that??? Confusinomicon.

Maybe I'll go back and try again.