Characters made only for combat

[Sagan Darkside]

Players often complain, so this shouldn't be entirely unexpected.

*chuckle* Yours must be some fun group.

I have been in many groups- and only the bad ones had players that often complained.

Granted, sometimes this was the players' fault, but regardless of whose fault it is- if complaining is happening often, then there is a problem.

SD

 

[Quasqueton]

Bad character, or bad role playing, or bad DM?

Well, if he is a fighter, then he has no social skills as class skills. Combined with only 2 skill points per level, what do you expect?

And to be a fighter, charisma is the natural "dump stat". He's not expected to cosy up to the troll and swap stories.

But wearing full armor and carrying lots of heavy and sharp dangerous weapons in towns/cities all the time is a problem for the local constabulary to handle. "Where's the battle, friend?" "We'd appreciate it if you dressed down a bit while walking our safe and friendly streets."

The rest of society is going to see him as a big dumb akward doofus that they expect to trip over things.

Is he low dex and low int/wis as well as below average charisma?

But when he finds a wizard to make him something or enchant something its a given he is going to get screwed.

Why is that a given? If it comes to diplomacy or bluff rolls for some kind of haggling, he only has -1 on his checks. What does the wizard have for charisma and skills? And would you give bargains/discounts on magic items to the 18 charisma, 10 ranks in diplomacy paladin?

Sounds to me that you are making a big ole stinking deal and dumping it on this character's and player's head for nothing.

You know, a "combat machine" is a legitimate role to play just as is the silver-tongued bard with 8 strength. Is the player acting his role appropriately?

Are you?

Quasqueton

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I would like to say that repeat business changes things. As NPC's get to know the character and relationships develop they will stop automatically takign advantage of him.

Right now though the character and the party in fact are traveling quite a bit so every meeting is a new first impression.

Well, I suppose I would be guilty as charged in such a situation. I have a combat monster (figuratively) who has an 8 charisma. I play him as such. He has no social graces whatsoever. If that causes the shopkeeper or whoever to treat him poorly, so bit it. However, a wise shopkeeper, as others have said, understand who is collecting the gold from underground, and repeat customers aren't those who get screwed. It would be more reasonable to have other players get breaks if they do suck up rather than penalize this guy.

In any case, if the player has any sense, he has the front man type of the party (whoever has the good charisma) do the shopping and negotiations. The A-Team has Face, and my party has a like fixture.

buzzard

 

[Bagpuss]

His charisma gives him a -1 modifier. To me that means when he walks into a shop there are two things that automatically run through the merchants mind.

1. A sucker is born every minute and he is one of them.

Nope that would be a low wisdom or intelligence.

2. The big doofus is probably going to knock something over and break things.

and that would be a low dexterity.

From what you've said so far I would say you are being overly harsh. Especially since its only slightly below average charisma, so he's a little dull in conversation at a dinner party. Its not like his charisma is 3 and he scratches his bollocks in mixed company.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Re: Bad character, or bad role playing, or bad DM?

You know, a "combat machine" is a legitimate role to play just as is the silver-tongued bard with 8 strength. Is the player acting his role appropriately?

Are you?

Quasqueton

Yep, and that bard gets better prices and nicer rooms with less effort because that is where his skill points, feats, and stats are focused. He doesnt expect to quickly rip through foes in combat because his dump stat is strength. He lives with that dump stat every time he goes into battle.

Why shouldnt the fighter live with his dump stat every time he does something based on it as well?

 

[hong]

Another item to consider is that a combat oriented character already has an advantage over a social interaction character. There are easily more opportunities for a combat character to gain XP vs a social character unless the DM really changes things around from how most games are played.

You are the DM. You have that power.

Its the character he wants to play in that he never creates anything but a combat monster.

Yet more gratuitous quoting from _Robin's Laws of Good Gaming_:

The Butt-Kicker wants to let off steam with a little old-fashioned vicarious mayhem. He picks a simple, combat-ready character, whether or not that is the best route to power and success in the system. After a long day in the office or classroom, he wants his character to clobber foes and once more prove his superiority over all who would challenge him. He may care enough about the rules to make his PC an optimal engine of destruction, or he may be indifferent to them, so long as he gets to hit things.

...

Butt-kickers want to wade into combat early and often. They like crunchy bits that make their PCs mightier in battle, but don't want other PCs to use their abilities to avoid fights. So long as the opportunities for smiting are frequent and colorful, they tend to be indifferent to the power balance between players and GM.

The question you should be asking yourself is not "how can I punish this guy for making a combat monster?" Your player is there to play the game to have fun the way he likes, and in this case, that means fighting. Assuming you don't want to just ban buttkickers from your game, you should be asking "how can I make things interesting for this guy?"

So he has 8 Cha and no ranks in social skills. That's well within the norms for humans, I'd say. It's not like he has 3 Cha or anything extreme. Remember that a lot of "default" skill is rolled up in the stat itself; it's not like GURPS, where every individual skill is listed and has a separate default.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Nope that would be a low wisdom or intelligence.



and that would be a low dexterity.

From what you've said so far I would say you are being overly harsh. Especially since its only slightly below average charisma, so he's a little dull in conversation at a dinner party. Its not like his charisma is 3 and he scratches his bollocks in mixed company.

Two items.

Low intelligence and wisdom may be noticed AFTER the conversation starts. Before that conversation the merchant is just going to look up and see the character and the image his charisma says "Sucker".

As for the dex comment your being obtuse on purpose not that there is anything new about that around here. Big dumb clumbsy is a common comment made about tall or large people. It's a first impression rarely if ever based on actually seeing how agile the person happens to be.

 

[Bagpuss]

Re: Re: Bad character, or bad role playing, or bad DM?

Why shouldnt the fighter live with his dump stat every time he does something based on it as well?

He should but buying things isn't based on charisma, I can walk into a shop pick something up take it to the counter and hand over my money without saying a word. It doesn't change the price, that's Charisma 8 for you. If I said "Thanks" when he hands me the change, and "Goodbye" on the way out thats Charisma 10, still the same price.

Now if I had charisma 18 and regularly shopped with the same shop chatted about the weather, how his kids were doing in school, etc. Then I might get 10% discount or something.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

The question you should be asking yourself is not "how can I punish this guy for making a combat monster?" Your player is there to play the game to have fun the way he likes, and in this case, that means fighting. Assuming you don't want to just ban buttkickers from your game, you should be asking "how can I make things interesting for this guy?"

So he has 8 Cha and no ranks in social skills. That's well within the norms for humans, I'd say. It's not like he has 3 Cha or anything extreme. Remember that a lot of "default" skill is rolled up in the stat itself; it's not like GURPS, where every individual skill is listed and has a separate default.

The campaign has been a balance of combat and intrigue from day one. Why should I change a balance that works because he designs a character that sucks at half of it and doesnt like it?

I have another player who is a interaction junky. I have had sessions go by when the party is buried in a dungeon and there is little to no NPc interaction and all combat all the time. Does he complain that his character is getting the shaft? No.

I am in no way out to get this fighter. I am making him deal with his choices just like I have to deal with how quickly and efficently he can deal with his foes that I throw at him in combat. He has his strengths and weaknesses and I think both should come out regularly in the course of a game.

 

[Arnwyn]

*chuckle* Yours must be some fun group.

I have been in many groups- and only the bad ones had players that often complained.

Granted, sometimes this was the players' fault, but regardless of whose fault it is- if complaining is happening often, then there is a problem.

Easy does it, Sparky. How do you know my group complains?

In fact, my comment about "players often complain" comes from what I've seen on this very board, from all the different threads I've read.

My group (11+ years with my buddies) is fantastic, and there haven't been many complaints in years. However, I have learned that discussions with the players have solved many problems, often even *before* any misunderstandings crop up. I think a discussion between Doc and Doc's player about expectations would be a good idea.

I like your attempted implications, though...