Characters made only for combat

[Utrecht]

Charisma is really only noticed after a conversation (or complete lack of it) starts. You can rarely tell a huge amount about someone charisma buy just looking at them. Churchhill and Hilter didn't look like much but they had buckets of Charisma and a lot of Models look amazing but have the personality of a haddock.

I do not necessarily think that is true - after all, what do you think Homer Simpson's Charisma is - and he is one giant Sucker. Further, an 8 charisma could represent many things - like that man is creepy or he is just different.....All which would lead to negative reactions from people - because different people are bad.

My take on this situation is this: if all the players knew that combat was only one part of the campaign from the beginning and they still optimized the chararcter for combat, they should realize that it comes with a price.

The question that you have to ask yourself as the DM is should this price be a negative price - or a positive reward to the characters that optimize for social situations - the choice is really yours as a DM - and it appears that you have gone the negative route (and there is certainly nothing wrong with this - other than PC whining - the question then becomes would the player whine if he was not treated the same as the Bard - then you definately have a problem - with the Player)

 

[Tom Cashel]

So why should the combat focused character be able to fudge social situations?

Besides all the other reasons posted, because social situations are what the Bard is for. D&D is a team sport.

 

[D'karr]

The campaign has been a balance of combat and intrigue from day one. Why should I change a balance that works because he designs a character that sucks at half of it and doesnt like it?

You don't have to. But look at this from the character's perspective.

I have another player who is a interaction junky. I have had sessions go by when the party is buried in a dungeon and there is little to no NPc interaction and all combat all the time. Does he complain that his character is getting the shaft? No.

Because even though he is in an uncomfortable environment the is not getting the shaft.

Using your own logic I would say that it would be a given that monsters and traps encountered in a dungeon would automatically look for a way to shaft the guy without any combat experience.

I am in no way out to get this fighter. I am making him deal with his choices just like I have to deal with how quickly and efficently he can deal with his foes that I throw at him in combat. He has his strengths and weaknesses and I think both should come out regularly in the course of a game.

You are making him deal with his choices in a way in which you are not making the other non-combat characters deal with theirs.

Next time the non-combat guys which used Strength as a dump stat get into combat do your best to screw them and see if they don't complain.

When they do then say, "Hey, I'm just making you deal with your choices."

 

[buzzard]

I just want to know where the penatly is supposed to be for having Charisma as your dump stat if its not in social interaction.

It doesnt affect combat.

It doesnt modify any saving throws.

All it does is modify skills used in social settings. Thats it, end of story, nothing more unless you are a sorcerer or bard casting spells or a cleric turning the undead.

Did you not notice the skills:
Bluff, diplomacy, intimidate, disguise, gather information, handle animal, perform

If you are running an intrigue heavy campaign, the fighter is already hampered in social situations. You don't have to make every wizzard who sells stuff have a grudge against him. A low charisma doesn't mean you automatically piss people off. You still have to do something to offend.

buzzard

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Re: Re: Characters made only for combat

Besides all the other reasons posted, because social situations are what the Bard is for. D&D is a team sport.

What about when the Bard or Sorcerer is off doing his own thing? The fighter doesnt want him to negotiate for him. The lat time he did the Sorcerer bartered to an obscene level well beyond what any reasonable merchant would accept. At that point he had to roll for it and two horrible rolls later the fighter ended up paying more than he wanted to on an item. Now he does all his own negotiating.

 

[Utrecht]

Next time the non-combat guys which used Strength as a dump stat get into combat do your best to screw them and see if they don't complain.

When they do then say, "Hey, I'm just making you deal with your choices."

Now this is certainly not fair -- and quite frankly sounds like a double standard - after all the Bard "deals with his choices" everytime they swing a sword!!!! Further, I would hope the Bard realizes that they are not combat monsters and stays way the heck away from the actual fighting - again the player is dealing with their consequence.

No one EVER suggested that the combat monster HAD to go and purchase things - heck a smarter move would be to have the Bard negotiate all of that players deals!!! Again, the combat monster would stay the heck away from social situations - sounds fair to ME!!!!

 

[Sagan Darkside]

I just want to know where the penatly is supposed to be for having Charisma as your dump stat if its not in social interaction.

Since you have explained what you do better in your posts following the initial one (which looks like yo are screwing him)- I think you are not handling in a bad way.

I think you are ready a 8 Cha harshly, but that is a per dm decision.

How do I handle dump stats of Cha?

Repercussions- I often have other rewards come about then treasure; titles, positions, and even stories being told of the pc's actions.

When a low cha pc gets involved in these situations, they are often down played.

Seem like a small thing? Sure, at first.

But as they walk around with those titles and positions- other benefits come their way, and having a poor one of either sucks.

Being downplayed in a story of your fame is going to hit the ego of most players, ime.

I also play villians intelligently- and they often watch their enemies. If they see an enemy who is weak in any attribute, then it is not uncommon for some poison that affects that attribute to come their direction.

It is a shame charisma still does not have a prevelant role in d&d, but it is better then it has ever been.

SD

 

[JacktheRabbit]

You are making him deal with his choices in a way in which you are not making the other non-combat characters deal with theirs.

Next time the non-combat guys which used Strength as a dump stat get into combat do your best to screw them and see if they don't complain.

When they do then say, "Hey, I'm just making you deal with your choices."

That is where you are wrong. The party lost a bard who charged into combat at the same time as fighter. Both of them hit the ogre sucessfully and the ogre even though he is dumb was wiley enough to swing at the painted fop of a bard and take him down before turning to engage the fighter.

 

[kkoie]

Well I for one do not agree with all the wimpsters and whiners who have responded to you. I think you are reacting exactly as you should to the given situation.

I too have/had players who would constantly use charisma as their dump stat.

Although I admit, it really didn't effect how much they spent on major purchases, it did have a huge impact on how much they spent, if they decided to do any barganing what-so-ever. And I usually choose prices that reflect a haggling society. It also had a huge impact on when they were trying to hit people up for information. IF they had a negative charisma, it would take more cash to grease the 'gather information' machine than it normally would.

I think what you are doing is quite understandable. When a character with an 8 charisma is in a social situation, it is going to be more difficult for him. The fact that he's a combat machine with an 8 charisma means he has the attitude and demeanor of a big dumb ox. He may have a great wisdom, and he may even be intelligent enough to take levels in wizard. But the fact remains is his charisma is below average. So while he does not reflect someone who would be a social cancer, he does reflect the steriotypical 'big dump jock.'

If he doesn't like being treated like a sucker, then the player should have his character invest in increasing his charisma.

I don't understand why some of the other posters think you are penalizing the guy, you are simply having people react to what is in front of them!

I'm sorry, but if I was the shop keeper in that situation, one of a few things would happen.

1. I'd roll my eyes and think 'great, not another "adventurer."
2. Depending on how threatening he looks, my apprentice would be standing in the back, ready to take the rear exit incase he needs to yell for the city watch (specially if my shop is in an area where I should be 'worried about his big nasty sword').
3. I'd take him for every gold coin he has got! Why? Why not?! With a charisma like that, it is going to be obvious that he's not very adept socially (you tend to notice things like that when you deal with people long enough). And as far as threat of physical harm? Its not like the shopkeepers are totally unfair? They are just not being flexable as they normally would. And if he threatens to whack the shop owner with the sword?! Good luck fella, thats why towns have citywatch, cityguards, and soldiers from the neighboring fort. Can we say fugitive?

Also, if the player really hates how he's getting 'ripped off' then why is he still doing the buying?! He would not be the first in history (fictional or otherwise) who had someone else do the purchasing for them, if that someone was better at haggling with the shopkeepers! An obvious solution would be for him to ask another character to transact the major purchase for him, so long as said combat machine is still supplying the money. All his friend has to do is the talking.

 

[buzzard]

Well I for one do not agree with all the wimpsters and whiners who have responded to you. I think you are reacting exactly as you should to the given situation.[/i]

Now here we were, having a nice discussion and you went off and got rude. Funny, I don't recall anyone whining, or being a whimp. Does your incredible sense of perception somehow exceed that of the rest of us? I guess I better bow to your omniscience. Feh.

It's obvious that you have something stuck in your craw about people who dump stat charisma. Fine. Your players get to suffer under that. Don't start insulting us because of it. With your above response it apparent you have a dump stat charisma yourself. Do you have shopkeeps screw you over most of the time?

buzzard