Charm + Teleport = A Very Long Fall

[Quidam]

Proposed tactic:

Sorceress casts Charm Person on a BBEG, moves in and teleports them both (since he's now willing) to some place rather high up in the air (the sorc having cast fly on herself) and drops the BBEG.

Given that the BBEG fails his save vs a level one spell, I'd still say he'd get a reflex save to make a grapple check to keep from getting dropped.

What think you?

 

[Lasher Dragon]

I'd say the reflex save would be just that, a reflexive reaction to save yourself - regardless of what enchantments you may be under.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I think no. It is not necessary for the spellcaster to actually grab the BBEG, merely be touching him. Furthermore, the BBEG starts dropping like a rock with a deathwish as soon as the spell is completed.

But, heck, it sounds like fun, so you might want to allow it anyway. However, at best, he's holding on to the sorceress's foot. She gets a rather high circumstance bonus on her turn to escape the grapple. If she succeeds, he's falling again.

 

[Jdvn1]

... Ouch. Good tactic.

 

[RangerWickett]

Somewhat related question: if you're grappling a wizard and he teleports away, do you count as 'gear'? In a recent session a whole bunch of PCs dogpiled on the wizard villain to keep him from escaping, with the rationale that he'd have to bring us all with him since we were in contact. But nope, the DM said he just vanished, and we fell on each other in a heap.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Heh. As near as I can tell, nope, RW.

You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent (see below) per three caster levels.

So, the wizard could have brought you along with him, but there doesn't seem to be a requirement that he do so. Moreover, Teleport is Verbal only, so it's a valid Grappling spell.

Rather than dogpiling, you should have had someone pin the wizard and stop him from speaking.

Then, a couple others should have stood around with readied attacks to disrupt spellcasting. The wizard would need to make a pretty hefty Concentration check to cast at all while grappling - and the number of spells that are possible is very limited (though it does include Teleport).

Then, you'd get your Attacks of Opportunity (unless you can cast defensively while grappling ... hmm, new question ...) followed by your readied attacks. The chances of someone disrupting the spell - or, at least, doing enough damage to knock out the wizard - would be pretty high.

 

[ARandomGod]

Heh. As near as I can tell, nope, RW.



So, the wizard could have brought you along with him, but there doesn't seem to be a requirement that he do so. Moreover, Teleport is Verbal only, so it's a valid Grappling spell.

Rather than dogpiling, you should have had someone pin the wizard and stop him from speaking.

Then, a couple others should have stood around with readied attacks to disrupt spellcasting. The wizard would need to make a pretty hefty Concentration check to cast at all while grappling - and the number of spells that are possible is very limited (though it does include Teleport).

Then, you'd get your Attacks of Opportunity (unless you can cast defensively while grappling ... hmm, new question ...) followed by your readied attacks. The chances of someone disrupting the spell - or, at least, doing enough damage to knock out the wizard - would be pretty high.

You can cast defensively while grappled...
But you have to first make your conentration check to cast while IN a grapple... and then any checks from readied action to disrupt casting. Overall if done right the caster is a goner.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

You can cast defensively while grappled...

But you have to first make your conentration check to cast while IN a grapple...

I thought so. I hadn't seen anything to prohibit it. I was also wondering whether the 20+Spell Level Concentration check to cast at all in a grapple subsumed the Casting Defensively check. I didn't think so, and I'm glad to see others agree with me!

and then any checks from readied action to disrupt casting. Overall if done right the caster is a goner.

Yeah, grappling is really, really hard on Wizards.

 

[ARandomGod]

I thought so. I hadn't seen anything to prohibit it. I was also wondering whether the 20+Spell Level Concentration check to cast at all in a grapple subsumed the Casting Defensively check. I didn't think so, and I'm glad to see others agree with me!



Yeah, grappling is really, really hard on Wizards.

Now get into an improved snatch with a creature who's got the mageslayer feat...

 

[Impeesa]

"Teleport really high up" is old. You're not thinking nasty enough... want a really cool one for suicidal NPCs? Charm + Maximized Teleport. No two of your constituent atoms are within a mile of each other by the time that ride's over.

--Impeesa--