D&D (2024) Check Out The New Monster Manual’s Ancient Gold Dragon

Wizards of the Coast has previewed (part of) the stat block for one of its iconic monsters on social media. Take a look!

 

[dave2008]

28 with fire. And multiply that by three, since it's attacking three times.

Again, I am not talking about the DPR / CR calculation and the fact that you add 9 fire to it doesn't make up for the fact, IMO, that a multi-ton dragon should hit for more than 2d8 + 10 damage. The dragon is immense, it should do more damage than a Large sword.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Again, I am not talking about the DPR / CR calculation and the fact that you add 9 fire to it doesn't make up for the fact, IMO, that a multi-ton dragon should hit for more than 2d8 + 10 damage. The dragon is immense, it should do more damage than a Large sword.

Okay, but the DPR is kind of an important point. Sure, you could have it do a flat 30 on every hit so it does more damage than a ballista bolt on every hit.... but for the balance concerns it is important to realize that that version and this version are dealing nearly 100 dmg a turn, without accounting for legendary actions, weakening breath, spells, ect.

Looking weak on paper matters a lot less than whether or not it feels weak for your character to take that sort of abuse from a monster.

 

[dave2008]

Okay, but the DPR is kind of an important point. Sure, you could have it do a flat 30 on every hit so it does more damage than a ballista bolt on every hit.... but for the balance concerns it is important to realize that that version and this version are dealing nearly 100 dmg a turn, without accounting for legendary actions, weakening breath, spells, ect.

Looking weak on paper matters a lot less than whether or not it feels weak for your character to take that sort of abuse from a monster.

Sure, but they could also make that 100 damage from two attacks and it would solve my issue with it. Make the rend to 50 and only allow to do two. Like I said, DPR is not the issue, I am not suggesting a change to DPR. I am suggesting an increasing the per attack damage.

 

[pukunui]

Sure, but they could also make that 100 damage from two attacks and it would solve my issue with it. Make the rend to 50 and only allow to do two. Like I said, DPR is not the issue, I am not suggesting a change to DPR. I am suggesting an increasing the per attack damage.

Does it make a difference that it can swap out a Rend attack for a 4th-level Guiding Bolt? That'll do more damage (7d6).

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I think Pathfinder did something like this for kaiju (I am so far behind; I have barely opened the latest Bestiary), but maybe gargantuan critters should have some kind of effect when they move. The wind stirred up by an ancient gold dragon flying makes it hard to fly near the dragon (even with fly spells) or every time the tarrasque takes a step, stuff (and people) gets knocked over. If it is hard for the PC's to monkey pile the critter, then it could focus on one big spectacular physical attack.

 

[dave2008]

Does it make a difference that it can swap out a Rend attack for a 4th-level Guiding Bolt? That'll do more damage (7d6).

No, again it is not about the DPR. It is about the damage a monster of that size should do. For reference I think my ancient red claw damage is: 32 (5d8+10), and its bite is: 42 (5d12+10) plus 14 (4d6) fire damage and I can make it work for a CR 24 dragon!

 

[Vael]

I dunno, this seems like an overly simulationist take, all monsters of X size must deal Y damage on a hit. That seems overly reductive.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I dunno, this seems like an overly simulationist take, all monsters of X size must deal Y damage on a hit. That seems overly reductive.

What are you responding too? You didn’t quote anything and there have been different “takes” expressed heee

 

[FarBeyondC]

What are you responding too? You didn’t quote anything and there have been different “takes” expressed heee

The post just before theirs, from context.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

For comparison the old Gold did 21 (2d10 + 10) for a bite, and 17 (2d6 + 10) x 2 for claws. No extra fire damage, and no ability to swap out for a Guiding Bolt or weakening breath.

So that's 55 average damage on it's multiattack to the 84 of the new.