5E Chris Perkins drops 2020 hint!

[Coroc]

I myself like to imagine that Athas (Dark Sun) is the future of Oerth (Greyhawk).

They feel closer together in tone to me.

Does not fit very well with greyhawk (or any other official campaign world i am aware of)

spoiler, only read if you are not playing as a player in DS campaign:






Halflings where the absolute predominant race back in Athas past. On Athas they are basically the source of all life

 

[Bitbrain]

Does not fit very well with greyhawk (or any other official campaign world i am aware of)

spoiler, only read if you are not playing as a player in DS campaign:

Halflings where the absolute predominant race back in Athas past. On Athas they are basically the source of all life.

I said I like to imagine Athas is the future of Oerth.

While official lore might say the Halflings are the progenitor species, I prefer Athas’ past to be an almost complete mystery.

All that really matters (in my opinion) is that arcane magic and genocidal wars engulfed the planet and damaged the ecosystem.
Then the Dragon of Tyr arose and burned the world, leaving Athas forever afterwards in the sorry state we know today...

 

[Coroc]

I said I like to imagine Athas is the future of Oerth.

While official lore might say the Halflings are the progenitor species, I prefer Athas’ past to be an almost complete mystery.

All that really matters (in my opinion) is that arcane magic and genocidal wars engulfed the planet and damaged the ecosystem.
Then the Dragon of Tyr arose and burned the world, leaving Athas forever afterwards in the sorry state we know today...

Well i see your intent eventually, if you e.g. would play some campaign in oerth then lateron play some campaign in DS with the same players, you could let the players find things they are familar with.

Sounds tempting, but it is only good for out of character amusement and has the danger that the players try to get clues using their player knowledge of the past world.

You can get the same effect by adding some rare past artifact which clearly comes from the past and is unknown in the in game time, but is not related to something the players are familar with (but not the characters)

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Other crystal spheres (if we use the concept from Spelljammer) or D&D worlds couldn't suffer that fate if gods don't allow it, not only gods about nature, but who protect their favorite race, they wouldn't allow a genocide. Even the infernal lords wouldn't allow their names fallen in the oblivion because they want those sinner souls for their own domains.

Githyankis were in DS and in the second try they noticed it was too hard to be conquered, but this doesn't mean the end of the visits. Maybe because it is too dangerous it could be like a trap against other faction, with a plan as "the treasure is in the other room". And I believe it is possible some natives from Athas could go before genocide wars. Or a secondary effect to the planar gate was being sent to a far future.

And if you want a future Oerth as DS only you have to recover the concept of time sphere from AD&D Chronomancer, like crystal sphere but set in an parallel world or uchrony. This would allow new options to create stories. Even this could be used as excuse for possible error of continuity in mass media adaptations.

Don't you miss the native genasies from DS what appeared in 4th Ed?

If the metaplot in DS continues and Borys is dead, and the rest of regions are "unlocked".... what will happen? I mean this could be like in a MMO where PCs after leveling up can visit harder zones... but D&D stories aren't "the monster of the next season will be stronger", this is not Dragon Ball. If some sorcerer-kings are killed, the new potential antagonists can't be only new faces with a higher challenger rating or power level.

How do you imagine the rest of the planet? And not only the dead land with its undeads.

* Ravenloft needs a good excuse to allow new "sandbox" domains. Maybe somebody want to use some ideas from other horror settings as "Obsidian Apocalypse" by LPJ Design, Shadow over Shatak by Fat Goblin Games or Kaidan by Rite Publishing. Somebody after killing hordes of zombi German shock troopers in Call of Duty will want to create a new domain as a secret laboratory with panzer-punk look. Other option is some worlds or at least some limited zones aren't within the demiplane of dread but they can be cursed or influenced indirectly by the dark powers, for example sending people as "trojan horses". Let's imagine a group of PCs escape and go to an unknown world ruled by a tyrant. They start a rebellion but this fails. At least the wear causes they regiment is weaker to resist a new attack for a second faction, with a pyrrhic victory, and then they are defeated by a new group of rebels whose origin is the land of the mists again.

* After reading an article about stagecraft technology used in the Mandalorian serie I guess making medieval fantasy movies will be cheaper than now.

 

[Arnwolf666]

I hate to the idea of Athas being anyone’s future. Maybe because at the end of the day I want a happy ending. I would rather it be a distant past a very long time ago. Like hundreds of millenia ago.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

If the metaplot in DS continues and Borys is dead, and the rest of regions are "unlocked".... what will happen? I mean this could be like in a MMO where PCs after leveling up can visit harder zones... but D&D stories aren't "the monster of the next season will be stronger", this is not Dragon Ball. If some sorcerer-kings are killed, the new potential antagonists can't be only new faces with a higher challenger rating or power level.

Dark Sun's "metaplot" is dead and buried. 4e nearly fully reset the setting back to right after Kalak was overtthrown. 5e will likely start in that exact same period, or slightly after.

If I released Dark Sun as a setting book in the style of Rising from the Last War, I would actually have a redone version of that module in the book (the one where Kalak is overthrown). That's a pretty good start to a Dark Sun campaign.

 

[Parmandur]

Dark Sun's "metaplot" is dead and buried. 4e nearly fully reset the setting back to right after Kalak was overtthrown. 5e will likely start in that exact same period, or slightly after.

If I released Dark Sun as a setting book in the style of Rising from the Last War, I would actually have a redone version of that module in the book (the one where Kalak is overthrown). That's a pretty good start to a Dark Sun campaign.

They've already killed the Greyhawk metaplot for Ghosts of Saltmarsh, and yeah, I would expect the same for any setting brought into 5E.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

They've already killed the Greyhawk metaplot for Ghosts of Saltmarsh, and yeah, I would expect the same for any setting brought into 5E.

Agreed. The metaplot is only really maintained if it actually had people who actively follow it (looking at you Forgotten Realms). The metaplot for both DS and GH was abhorred however, and rightfully should be abandoned.

I'm not entirely sure what will happen to Dragonlance however, as the War of the Lance is the iconic time period, but I don't think Wizard's wants to entirely abandon the books. They might put in a timeline or something and recommend points in time for people to use.

 

[Parmandur]

Agreed. The metaplot is only really maintained if it actually had people who actively follow it (looking at you Forgotten Realms). The metaplot for both DS and GH was abhorred however, and rightfully should be abandoned.

I'm not entirely sure what will happen to Dragonlance however, as the War of the Lance is the iconic time period, but I don't think Wizard's wants to entirely abandon the books. They might put in a timeline or something and recommend points in time for people to use.

It's been ten years since the book line ended. I suspect they will want to do some sort of conversion of the original modules ala Ghosts of Saltmarsh, as they are the one really wdly successful game product for the setting.

 

[Arnwolf666]

It's been ten years since the book line ended. I suspect they will want to do some sort of conversion of the original modules ala Ghosts of Saltmarsh, as they are the one really wdly successful game product for the setting.

Krynn needs adventures that bring out the possibilities of the setting imho. But if it is all the “shared experience” that people want then maybe just an updated adventure letting players play through the war of the lance is all that is needed. not sure really. I just know what I want and like.

 

[gyor]

They've already killed the Greyhawk metaplot for Ghosts of Saltmarsh, and yeah, I would expect the same for any setting brought into 5E.

I'm not familiar with Greyhawks metaplot, how did Saltmarsh kill it?

 

[Parmandur]

I'm not familiar with Greyhawks metaplot, how did Saltmarsh kill it?

Well, I'll admit "kill" is a bit dramatic, but...to avoid spoilers, the new sandbox material in GoS that links the modules has some geopolitical facts that are central to the action that ignore the major events on Greyhawk after Gygax left the company.

Spoiler: Some more details...

Specifically, the Scarlet Brotherhood is in the region sneaking around and plotting to takeover the Holds of the Sea Princes which are important to the smuggling economy in Saltmarsh: as of ~1989-1990, the Scarlet Brotherhood had already succeeded in taking over the Holds openly. This, and a few other tidbits, date the Adventure book to the original Gygax box set in world, bringing events back to before the Greyhawk Wars.

This matches with how Mearls said they were looking at using Greyhawk in the future, shortly before GoS was announced, so rebooting Greyhawk to Gygax appears to be their plan for Greyhawk in the future:

 

[gyor]

I find it funny in that video that they keep worrying about getting Greyhawk facts wrong, only to fumble with their own books. The Orcs were covered in Volo's Guide to Monsters, not MTOFs.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

We will see many retcons, little changes in the continuity, because they are necessary, accidentally unintentional or unavoidable, with a reboot of worlds with famous novels may be too risky. It would be like the expanded Star War legends losing the canon with the new movies.

Dark Sun in the 4th Ed had got some changes, but it was more retcons what a complete reboot.

Nethir Vale or Points of Light will come back as a transitional world, where the rest of D&D multiverse could visit as "guest artists".

I have mentioned some times in the past about the chronomancers, a sourcebook from AD&D 2nd Ed and the time dragons, what appeared in the last paper number of Dragon Magazine published by Paizo, and I say there is a open door for the return of these concepts because the time spheres are a good excuse to justify some important changes in the lore or background, or allowing games where the PCs are who alter the History and not by the heroes from the famous novels.

* If my memory doesn't fail I have readen Gary Gygax's plan for Gh was the PCs gathered special magic items and these together would cause a reboot of the world. The end of the novels of Gorn was also a reboot of the world, but theoretically the people from Gh was sent to the new universe of Dangerous Journeys.

I wonder about an agreement between WotC and Gygax Games to recover IPs created by Gary Gygax after the time in TSR.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

We will see many retcons, little changes in the continuity, because they are necessary, accidentally unintentional or unavoidable, with a reboot of worlds with famous novels may be too risky. It would be like the expanded Star War legends losing the canon with the new movies.

You know the Star Wars example is the opposite of what you describe? The Disney decision was not "small changes," it was a full reset of everything that wasn't from the movies. Which is largely what I expect for Greyhawk and Dark Sun, a full reset back to their most popular periods.

 

[gyor]

You know the Star Wars example is the opposite of what you describe? The Disney decision was not "small changes," it was a full reset of everything that wasn't from the movies. Which is largely what I expect for Greyhawk and Dark Sun, a full reset back to their most popular periods.

I expect it will be a mix of reset with a handful of new elements, such as Tieflings and Dragonborn being added to Greyhawk and maybe looking at the setting from a fresh perspective. Also I would not be surprised to see Greyhawks connection to Faerun reciprocated, with maybe Elminster making an appearance of some or a portal between them or something.

And maybe Darksun will get Genasai right in the core this time, I mean they fit the setting like a glove.

 

[gyor]

We will see many retcons, little changes in the continuity, because they are necessary, accidentally unintentional or unavoidable, with a reboot of worlds with famous novels may be too risky. It would be like the expanded Star War legends losing the canon with the new movies.

Dark Sun in the 4th Ed had got some changes, but it was more retcons what a complete reboot.

Nethir Vale or Points of Light will come back as a transitional world, where the rest of D&D multiverse could visit as "guest artists".

I have mentioned some times in the past about the chronomancers, a sourcebook from AD&D 2nd Ed and the time dragons, what appeared in the last paper number of Dragon Magazine published by Paizo, and I say there is a open door for the return of these concepts because the time spheres are a good excuse to justify some important changes in the lore or background, or allowing games where the PCs are who alter the History and not by the heroes from the famous novels.

* If my memory doesn't fail I have readen Gary Gygax's plan for Gh was the PCs gathered special magic items and these together would cause a reboot of the world. The end of the novels of Gorn was also a reboot of the world, but theoretically the people from Gh was sent to the new universe of Dangerous Journeys.

I wonder about an agreement between WotC and Gygax Games to recover IPs created by Gary Gygax after the time in TSR.

I remember that Nerath fans were like were is Nentir Vale/Nerath in the last survey of Settings, and it just dawned on me that they might decide to merge Nerath into the Forgotten Realms somehow, like add it to FRs solar system or something.

I mean Nentir Vale actually started out conceptually as a part of the Forgotten Realms, before they decided to make it seperate, and Nentir Vale some major events like both worlds were involved in the Dawn War and Devas from one world can and have been reborn on the other, to the point where Nerath Deities do have artificts on Faerun. And both were effected by the Abyssal Plague.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

I expect it will be a mix of reset with a handful of new elements, such as Tieflings and Dragonborn being added to Greyhawk and maybe looking at the setting from a fresh perspective. Also I would not be surprised to see Greyhawks connection to Faerun reciprocated, with maybe Elminster making an appearance of some or a portal between them or something.

And maybe Darksun will get Genasai right in the core this time, I mean they fit the setting like a glove.

I doubt the Genasi thing. Sure earth and fire genasi are good fits, but I'm pretty sure as a water genasi you don't fit in at all.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

In Dark Sun 4th Ed the feywild was canon, but its name was "land within wind", and also destroyed by defiler magic. This "land within wind" could be a joker card what would allow to add new things, as races (the wilden from PH 3 4th Ed or classes (warden and seekers).

In 3rd Ed the origin of the dragonborn was Bahamut the good dragon god chosen ordinary mortals as his champions against Tiamat, and they suffered a metamorphosys within an egg. And they were steriles. The dragonkin, dragonblood humanoids were canon in Faerun, even in 2nd Ed, but more powerful than ordinary dragonborns.

In Expanded Psionic Handbook the origin of the half-giants was as indirect allusion to DS. At least that was my opinion.

DS had got new and own genasi subraces: sun, sand, magma and cinder.

* After Baldur's Gate 3 DS would be one of the best candidates for an adaptation, but this will need a lot of work by "fashion designers" and artists because its look is unique.

* Now I am thinking there was a plan for a module set in Kalidnay, the dark domain crossover between Ravenloft and DS, since the beginning, not an improvisation al all. And in the end of the story Gwydion, darklord of Arak/shadow rift would visit Athas for a little time.

Other idea for a crossover is genies and sha'ir from Zakhara (al-Quadim) and Athasian elemental clerics discovering some planar gate to demiplanes within para-elemental planes, and different factions want to conquest that regions.