Our DM says that once a monster is "aware" of the rogue, the rogue can no longer use a sneak attack. So basically even though the monster may be in melee combat with our fighters, the rouge who is a dozen feet or so away can not use his bow to get in a sneak attack. Can somene please enlighten me as to how your DM interpet the rule.
clarification on sneak attack
- Thread starter kalunk
- Start date
The Souljourner
First Post
The rule is simple - whenever an opponent is flanked by you or whenever it is denied its dex bonus against you, you may sneak attack it. Flanking doesn't apply to ranged weapons, so that leaves dex bonus.
Yes, if the thing knows you're there, it gets to apply its dex bonus and you don't get to sneak attack it. There are a few ways around that, like invisibility, blink, or the shadow dancer's hide in plain sight ability, but they're generally kinda hard to come by.
The long and the short of it is, if you want to get sneak attacks for the entire battle, you gotta get in and get your hands dirty (i.e. get into melee and flank the thing).
-The Souljourner
Yes, if the thing knows you're there, it gets to apply its dex bonus and you don't get to sneak attack it. There are a few ways around that, like invisibility, blink, or the shadow dancer's hide in plain sight ability, but they're generally kinda hard to come by.
The long and the short of it is, if you want to get sneak attacks for the entire battle, you gotta get in and get your hands dirty (i.e. get into melee and flank the thing).
-The Souljourner
mkletch
First Post
kalunk said:
Is the DM new to 3E (i.e. is this a case of 1E/2E rules contagion, since sneak attacks were different in the old days), or is this question relative to a specific event? It's hard to get ranged sneak attacks except for the first round of combat, unless you blink/invis/hide.
-Fletch!
Hi all,
I'm he DM in question on this thread. What the PC is trying to do is sneak attack whenever a monster is in melee with another PC. I would think that a monster when in combat is not going to loose sight of a thief that is trying to stab it in the back. What i allowed is that if the PC's hide check beat the monsters spot that the thief would get a sneak attack. But I don’t think that simply because the monster is engaged with another melee opponent that the thief gets a free sneak attack. I also know that there is an extraordinary ability that allows for that type of melee sneak attack. Any examples of play would be great as well.
LordAJ
I'm he DM in question on this thread. What the PC is trying to do is sneak attack whenever a monster is in melee with another PC. I would think that a monster when in combat is not going to loose sight of a thief that is trying to stab it in the back. What i allowed is that if the PC's hide check beat the monsters spot that the thief would get a sneak attack. But I don’t think that simply because the monster is engaged with another melee opponent that the thief gets a free sneak attack. I also know that there is an extraordinary ability that allows for that type of melee sneak attack. Any examples of play would be great as well.
LordAJ
kreynolds
First Post
LORDAJ said:
Like The Souljourner said, any time a rogue successfully flanks a target, the rogue can sneak attack the target. Any time the rogue's target loses it's Dex bonus to AC, the rogue can sneak attack the target. There is no limit to how many sneak attacks you can make in a round.
Note, however, that it can be quite difficult to sneak attack someone in melee when you are using a ranged weapon. Since you don't threaten an area with a ranged weapon, you can't flank. So, ranged sneak attacks require that your target loses it's Dex bonus to AC.
Sneak attacking targets in melee using flanking is a very solid, and very legal, combat tactic.
LORDAJ said:
It's actually worse than you think!
Consider the following example: (X - blank square, M - monster, R - rogue, F - fighter)
XXX
RMF
XXX
Flanking occurs when two attackers are directly opposite an opponent. For creatures larger than 5'x5' size on the combat grid, Song & Silence has a nice section in it for determining if the larger creature is flanked.
The rogue is directly opposite the fighter and in melee (with shortsword in hand), so the creature is flanked. ALL melee attacks the rogue make in the round are "sneak attacks". So for say, a 15th level rogue with three melee attacks in a round dealing +8d6 sneak attack damage per hit could possible perform a Full Attack Action, and if he hits, does 1d6+8d6 damage per hit, up to three times(!).
Fear the rogue in melee!
But do not dispair!
It depends on the creature. Certain creatures are immune to criticals and sneak attacks (undead for one). Other creatures have no dicernable anatomy (thus immune to sneak attacks - any elemental for an example). Other creatures might not be able to be flanked (example - Xorn, which has 360 degree vision), along with Barbarian and othe Rogues (which the attacking rogue has to be four levels higher in order to flank due to the Uncanny Dodge ability).
Also, the rogue does not have the "staying power" in melee. He only has d6's for hit dice, and is usually restricted to light or no armor for a lower AC.
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