Cleave after AoO?

[Aaron L]

I agree. This is skirting the "bag of cats" syndrome. If puckboy goblin goes through your threatened and BBEG is on his guard, I don't see why puckboy's mistep should give you an attack on BBEG.

Bad teamwork. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, a team is only as strong as its weakest member.

Puckboy could stumble into BBEG as he dies, and it makes an opening to attack BBEG. Puckboy could be right beside BBEG, and BBEG is lax on his defense of that side becuase it is covered by an ally. Puckboy dies, side exposed, Cleave. Or, BBEG sees you attack puckboy. BBEG isn't expecting you to kill BBEG in one stroke, BBEG taken aback, Cleave.


Many reasons it can work.

 

[Psion]

Bad teamwork. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, a team is only as strong as its weakest member.

I thought about that angle, but I am still not convinced. The goblin and the BBEG aren't even required to be on the same team. They just can't be on your team. Like the bag of cats, you can provide your own targets to allow you to get extra attacks.

 

[ruleslawyer]

By the by, this belongs in the Rules forum.

 

[jmucchiello]

I always assume that cleaves are followthru with the weapon. The weapon takes out the first target and it take no effort for the fighter to ride the momentum of the attack into a nearby target. Thus a quick jab at a running flunky could allow you to followthru into the BBEG because if you can get the weapon moving against the flunky it can keep right on moving. Great Cleave is just a lucky instance where making a sweeping attack actually hits a bunch of targets. That's also why Cleave acts on the same BAB as the strike that fells the target: it's still the same swing.

Aside: logically, I shouldn't allow cleave to work with piercing weapons given this logic but d20 combat is so abstract I figure, why bother?

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I refuse to give it for the same reaosns psion seems to dislike it.

Its absolute bunk to let someone get an attack on someone who didn't screw up because someone lame nearby did.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I'm not so sure that it is allowed during an AoO - this can really get "dicey" if it is Great Cleave - I wonder if this would come into play in this situation:

Two creatures running in tandem run past Boris, the fighter. He gets an AoO - but since they move together, he can only attack one - by the time he swings, the other would already be past... UNLESS - he has cleave - then he can attack both if he kills the first with his swing...

Creatures never ever run in tandem - they all move one at a time. IF he can get two AoO's (through combat reflexes for instance), then he can attack both ANYWAY. If he happens to drop one, he can get a cleave on a target within range AT THE TIME THAT HE CLEAVES - typically a creatures which was already standing next to him when it's buddy decided to run past.

 

[Aaron L]

Its absolute bunk to let someone get an attack on someone who didn't screw up because someone lame nearby did.

It may be bunk, but stuff like that happens in real life .

 

[Shard O'Glase]

It may be bunk, but stuff like that happens in real life .

Considering how abstract d&d i fail to see where real life comes in. AoO are supposed to represent a choice opening because someone did something dumb so you get a free swing. If bob near by hasn't made any openings why do you also get a free swing on him. It may fit the definition of cleave, but it goes against everything there is written about AoO.

 

[Breakdaddy]

By the by, this belongs in the Rules forum.

Nice to see you living up to your name.

 

[jgsugden]

A house rule that I use that is a compromise between the written rules (you do get to cleave off an AoO) and what many DMs find sensible (you shouldn't be able to cleave off an AoO):

An attacker with the cleave or great cleave feat does not gain an extra attack when he or she takes down an opponent on an attack of opportunity, though they may expend one available cleave attempt to gain the ability to perform an additional AoO before their next action as long as they do not move. For example: Bob the Barbarian has cleave, but not combat reflexes. He has not used his cleave for the round prior to taking down an enemy on an AoO. He may expend a cleave attempt to gain an additional AoO that may be used before his next action as long as he does not move.