cleric switching god

[smootrk]

I agree that the penalties are harsh for the cleric who turns his back on his source of divine power. My method works best for lower level clerics who only have to struggle for a short period of time, and might be tweaked for much higher level characters. It works for my players, and certainly makes them think before such a switch. My method does allow ultimately to regain full power per their normal cleric level.

My play style is flexible enough to allow for Role-play to ultimately dictate the circumstances with the advancement. For instance, if there is just rhyme and reason for an accelerated or alternate change, I would entertain the idea. Ultimately, making the play fun and the story work is the goal.

 

[MoonZar]

I agree that the penalties are harsh for the cleric who turns his back on his source of divine power. My method works best for lower level clerics who only have to struggle for a short period of time, and might be tweaked for much higher level characters. It works for my players, and certainly makes them think before such a switch. My method does allow ultimately to regain full power per their normal cleric level.

My play style is flexible enough to allow for Role-play to ultimately dictate the circumstances with the advancement. For instance, if there is just rhyme and reason for an accelerated or alternate change, I would entertain the idea. Ultimately, making the play fun and the story work is the goal.

That's true this a good opportunity for great roleplay, that the cleric have too prove himself to his new religion.

 

[DarkJester]

I'd strip the clerics highest level or two of spells (depending on his level) until he had proves himself to his new god. Taking away all of spellcasting hurts him and his group a lot. I think losing his highest spells would be enough of a motivation to keep this from being a everyday thing.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I agree that the penalties are harsh for the cleric who turns his back on his source of divine power. My method works best for lower level clerics who only have to struggle for a short period of time, and might be tweaked for much higher level characters. It works for my players, and certainly makes them think before such a switch. My method does allow ultimately to regain full power per their normal cleric level.

My play style is flexible enough to allow for Role-play to ultimately dictate the circumstances with the advancement. For instance, if there is just rhyme and reason for an accelerated or alternate change, I would entertain the idea. Ultimately, making the play fun and the story work is the goal.

Than it's OK. It's not too bad on low levels, and if you're flexible and willing to give them a break if it happens on a higher level, it's gother be okay.

And you're right: It really depends on the circumstances. While there's no excuse for frivolous change (and this is within the system already, since such clerics would have a hard time getting an atonement spell from most clergies), if there's a perfectly justified reason for the change, the cleric should not suffer unduly for this, and neither should the player.


To get to the original situation: We have a cleric of Lathander who first sees most of his comrades killed, and is then subject to several months of torture and physical abuse, until he is freed. The cleric now feels that his deity has forsaken him, and due to his ordeal, he feels that the God of Justice and Retribution is far more suited to him: he has suffered and wants to prevent others from suffering, as well as meting out punishment to those who would mistreat people so.

Now I think that, in this situation, the change of heart is perfectly justified (and the DM agrees, as you can read in post one).
Sure, he feels that the clergy of lathander can't help but harbour ill will toward the cleric, as he has stated that Lathander isn't a strong enough deity, but as we are talking about Lathander, I doubt that they will seek retribution from him, as Lathander is not a vengeful deity. They would rather try to make a new beginning of this, not dwelling on the old. Especially, they wouldn't get ugly with the wayward priest.

Do you agree?

 

[MoonZar]

I'd strip the clerics highest level or two of spells (depending on his level) until he had proves himself to his new god. Taking away all of spellcasting hurts him and his group a lot. I think losing his highest spells would be enough of a motivation to keep this from being a everyday thing.

What do you think of taking away all his spells and give it back one level for each week of adventuring ? He still can fight and this will be a good test and at the end he'll be a full cleric of tyr.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I'd strip the clerics highest level or two of spells (depending on his level) until he had proves himself to his new god. Taking away all of spellcasting hurts him and his group a lot. I think losing his highest spells would be enough of a motivation to keep this from being a everyday thing.

Well, until he has been initiated to a new deity, he simply cannot cast spells. Of course, once he has found a suitable god or goddess (and he has right away), the new deity might do exactly that: grant him some divine power on probation, and send him on a quest.

Alternately, the cleric could be stripped of all magic except healing magic, so all he can do is keep himself and his comrades from dying. This would be painful enough (we all know how much clerics depend on their buffs) without robbing the party of any healing capabilities. Of course, that doesn't seem appropriate for Tyr.

I think that losing all divine power would be OK, as long as the Quest to prove himself doesn't take too long. One game session seems like a good time span. Since the party knows what lies in store for them, and probably start out at a temple, they could buy enough healing potions and the like to get by.

 

[MoonZar]

Well, until he has been initiated to a new deity, he simply cannot cast spells. Of course, once he has found a suitable god or goddess (and he has right away), the new deity might do exactly that: grant him some divine power on probation, and send him on a quest.

Alternately, the cleric could be stripped of all magic except healing magic, so all he can do is keep himself and his comrades from dying. This would be painful enough (we all know how much clerics depend on their buffs) without robbing the party of any healing capabilities. Of course, that doesn't seem appropriate for Tyr.

I think that losing all divine power would be OK, as long as the Quest to prove himself doesn't take too long. One game session seems like a good time span. Since the party knows what lies in store for them, and probably start out at a temple, they could buy enough healing potions and the like to get by.

Hello Kaeyoss,

I must say that you have a lot of good idea about this, truly. I would take some notes about this if this happen in one of my group.

 

[smootrk]

Than it's OK. It's not too bad on low levels, and if you're flexible and willing to give them a break if it happens on a higher level, it's gother be okay.

And you're right: It really depends on the circumstances. While there's no excuse for frivolous change (and this is within the system already, since such clerics would have a hard time getting an atonement spell from most clergies), if there's a perfectly justified reason for the change, the cleric should not suffer unduly for this, and neither should the player.


To get to the original situation: We have a cleric of Lathander who first sees most of his comrades killed, and is then subject to several months of torture and physical abuse, until he is freed. The cleric now feels that his deity has forsaken him, and due to his ordeal, he feels that the God of Justice and Retribution is far more suited to him: he has suffered and wants to prevent others from suffering, as well as meting out punishment to those who would mistreat people so.

Now I think that, in this situation, the change of heart is perfectly justified (and the DM agrees, as you can read in post one).
Sure, he feels that the clergy of lathander can't help but harbour ill will toward the cleric, as he has stated that Lathander isn't a strong enough deity, but as we are talking about Lathander, I doubt that they will seek retribution from him, as Lathander is not a vengeful deity. They would rather try to make a new beginning of this, not dwelling on the old. Especially, they wouldn't get ugly with the wayward priest.

Do you agree?

I do agree that in this particular case, which sounds to be good role-play to me, that there would be little retribution from Lathander the deity. His clergy on the other hand, in a more realistic sense, might still have issues with the ex-cleric. After all the organization would have internal politics amongst the men who make up the clergy. Just look at all the hoo-doo that goes on when the pope died, or defrocked priests, or alternate lifestyle Episcopal priests (who stay in the organization).

Changing to a new diety should entail much more strife than I think most in this forum seem to want to entertain. Maybe for some campaigns this should be manifest in ability penalties, and xp loss, and for other campaigns it should revolve around the role-play aspect of the change. I think either is probably correct, but depends on the DM ,his individual players, and his particular group dynamic. Ultimately, making the game fun is the goal.

Peace. All are correct in these scenarios, and they are just shared opinions.

 

[DarkJester]

I'd let him cast spells prior to being initiated to a new diety. Obviously house rule territory, but I'd just say he's developed enough of a knack for his lower level spells that he doesn't need a dieties direct approval to cast them. I also might take away any spell that required a divine focus...now that I think about it.

I just really don't like the idea of a cleric going without spells. Then again, I don't generally sunder weapons or steal spellbooks. Not that I really consider this to be the same thing - the player is making the initial decision. I just know that I wouldn't have much fun as a player if I couldn't do what my class was supposed to do.

 

[MoonZar]

I'd let him cast spells prior to being initiated to a new diety. Obviously house rule territory, but I'd just say he's developed enough of a knack for his lower level spells that he doesn't need a dieties direct approval to cast them. I also might take away any spell that required a divine focus...now that I think about it.

I just really don't like the idea of a cleric going without spells. Then again, I don't generally sunder weapons or steal spellbooks. Not that I really consider this to be the same thing - the player is making the initial decision. I just know that I wouldn't have much fun as a player if I couldn't do what my class was supposed to do.

Well i guess the player fun is above everything else