D&D 5E Climbing a tower rules 5e

[iserith]

The examples given in those rules are not an exhaustive list though. This is what's leading you into error.

The general rule is that 'Climbing does not require a check UNLESS there is a complicating factor (such as a slippery vertical surface, a sheer surface with few handholds or similar complications)' at which point it MAY require one (DM's call).

Those two given examples are not exhaustive. They just serve as a benchmark to assist the DM in determining when to call for a check.

Climbing a rope upside down and feet first (for example) would clearly call for a check and it's not spelled out anywhere in the text.

We've already gone over this reasoning several times upthread. I don't see any benefit to going over it again. Some of us agree with my position. Some disagree. That's where things stand. (Also, there are examples in both Chapters 7 and 8, not just Chapter 8.)

 

[Maxperson]

As I said, the DM can do what they want to the limits of their table rules.

It's not a table rule. It's RAW. The ability check rules work for what we are saying.

But this DM won't consider a Strength (Athletics) check due to the length of the climb to be in accordance with the specific rules for climbing in Chapters 7 and 8.

Which is fine. The same rules that allow me to assign a strength athletics check also allow you to do that.

It looks like you don't consider what's in Chapter 7 to be specific rules for climbing, but given that they specifically reference the conditions in which an ability check might be appropriate while climbing, I don't buy your reasoning.

Whether they are or are not is not actually relevant. So I'll give you more specific climb rules. The more specific ability check climb rules do not require a specific degree of difficulty, so climbing up for a long time can qualify, nor do they specifically reference THE conditions for what you make those ability checks for. RAW explicitly says those are just some examples. That means that if I want to require a strength athletics check to climb up the wall, the very "specific climb rules" you are referencing support my doing so.

 

[Flamestrike]

(Also, there are examples in both Chapters 7 and 8, not just Chapter 8.)

And those examples are also not exhaustive.

Those examples dont (for example) include 'climbing a 100' cliff wall with reasonable handholds, while drunk, in a howling gale, and with one arm broken'.

I presume you wouldnt call for a check such a task?

 

[iserith]

It's not a table rule. It's RAW. The ability check rules work for what we are saying.

Which is fine. The same rules that allow me to assign a strength athletics check also allow you to do that.

Whether they are or are not is not actually relevant. So I'll give you more specific climb rules. The more specific ability check climb rules do not require a specific degree of difficulty, so climbing up for a long time can qualify, nor do they specifically reference THE conditions for what you make those ability checks for. RAW explicitly says those are just some examples. That means that if I want to require a strength athletics check to climb up the wall, the very "specific climb rules" you are referencing support my doing so.

Table rules refer to something else (also called the social contract). I'm not saying anything you're doing is a table rule. As for the rest, it's retreading old ground.

 

[iserith]

And those examples are also not exhaustive.

Those examples dont (for example) include 'climbing a 100' cliff wall with reasonable handholds, while drunk, in a howling gale, and with one arm broken'.

I presume you wouldnt call for a check such a task?

No. But notably the DM is free to say that the climb like any other task is simply impossible (DMG pg. 237).

 

[Flamestrike]

No.

So you view the list of examples of specific tasks that require a check contained in the PHB as exhaustive.

Is that correct?

 

[Charlaquin]

It's not a table rule. It's RAW. The ability check rules work for what we are saying.

I think you misunderstood @iserith there. Table rules, as described in the DMG, are rules about how the game is played (as opposed to house rules, which are changes to the rules about how to play the game). Examples include “avoid distractions” and “bring snacks.” Essentially, @iserith was saying the DM is free to do anything they want, within the limits of the group’s social contract.

 

[iserith]

So you view the list of examples of specific tasks that require a check contained in the PHB as exhaustive.

Is that correct?

It's more the category of such examples, but yes. This was covered at length upthread.

 

[iserith]

I think you misunderstood @iserith there. Table rules, as described in the DMG, are rules about how the game is played (as opposed to house rules, which are changes to the rules about how to play the game). Examples include “avoid distractions” and “bring snacks.” Essentially, @iserith was saying the DM is free to do anything they want, within the limits of the group’s social contract.

Even use a term that shares half the words of "house rules" and people get stabby.

 

[Flamestrike]

It's more the category of such examples, but yes. This was covered at length upthread.

So climbing a rope from the ground, 5 miles into the sky, while drunk, in a howling gale, does not require a check to perform?

It's either an impossible task (and you cant even attempt it), or its automatically successful (due to not being in a category of any of the examples in the rules of when to require a check).

I just want to be clear this is how you make your rulings.