Cloverfield - The Immortal's Handbook 4E to 3.5 Conversion

[Khisanth the Ancient]

Titanic Magical Beast (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 125d10+2375 (3062 hit points)
Initiative: +13 (+5 Dex, +8 Superior Initiative)
Speed: 80 ft. (16 squares), swim 80 ft.
Armor Class: 79 (-16 size, +5 Dex, +80 natural), touch -1, flat-footed 74
Base Attack/Grapple: +125/+166
Attack: Bite +136 melee (6d6+21/19-20)
Full Attack: Bite +136 melee (6d6+21/19-20), 2 claws +134 melee (4d6+10), tail slap +135 melee (8d8+10/19-20)
Space/Reach: 225 ft./150 ft.
Special Attacks: Disease, feeding tubes, tail flail, trample
Special Qualities: Amphibious, darkvision 60 ft., DR 15/-, great leap, low-light vision, scent, shed parasites
Saves: Fort +83, Ref +75, Will +45
Abilities: Str 52, Dex 21, Con 49, Int 3, Wis 18, Cha 7
Skills: Jump +73, Listen +36, Spot +20, Survival +20, Swim +61
Feats: Awesome Blow, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (bite, tail), Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (bite, tail), Lightning Reflexes, Multiattack, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (bite, tail)
Epic Feats: Armor Skin (x7), Damage Reduction (x5), Devastating Critical (bite, tail), Epic Prowess (x5), Epic Reflexes, Improved Combat Reflexes, Overwhelming Critical (bite, tail), Penetrate Damage Reduction (adamantine, cold iron, silver), Perfect Health, Superior Initiative
Environment: Temperate aquatic and land???
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating:]101 (target)
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: ?
Level Adjustment: -

Combat
Disease (Ex): Star chills, Fort DC 91, damage 1d8 Con drain. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Unlike normal diseases, star chills has an incubation period of 1 hour, and it deals damage every hour instead of every day. In addition, every time a Fortitude save against star chills fails by 5 or more (fails to beat DC 86), the period in which it deals damage decreases (to every 10 minutes, to every minute, and then to every round - star chills will never deal damage more than once per round.)

Feeding Tubes (Ex): Cloverfield may, as a standard action, make touch attacks to start a grapple against all creatures three or more sizes smaller than itself in or adjacent to its space, without provoking an attack of opportunity. In addition, whenever Cloverfield's trample damages a creature, Cloverfield automatically makes a grapple check against that creature, without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the grapple check succeeds, in the next round, Clover can make another grapple check to swallow the victim, or can expel the victim violently (causing the victim to fall 1d6+4x10 feet and take 1d6 damage per 10 feet fallen). Expelling a victim is automatic and requires no check. Clover can make up to four grapple checks per round via its feeding tubes. Any successful grapple check made via its feeding tubes forces the opponent to make a Fortitude save (DC 91) or contract star chills.
A swallowed creature takes 4d6+21 bludgeoning and 21 acid damage and suffers 1d3 Str drain per round, and must save (Fort DC 91) each round or contract star chills. A swallowed creature can escape only by cutting its way out, dealing 250 points of damage to the interior of Cloverfield's stomach (AC 50).

Tail Flail (Ex): As a standard action, Clover can whip its tail in frenzied motions, smashing everything nearby. All creatures and unattended objects within 60 feet of Clover take 5d10+21 damage (Reflex DC 93 half). The save DC is Strength-based.

Trample (Ex): 4d6+31 damage, Reflex half DC 93. The save DC is Strength-based. In addition, creatures of Huge or smaller size are also affected by feeding tubes when trampled, without requiring a touch attack.

Great Leap (Ex): The Cloverfield Monster's jumps are always made as though it had a running start, even if it jumps from a standstill. Its jumps are not limited by its height.

Shed Parasites (Ex): When Clover takes damage, it releases one parasite for every [amount determined by parasite's CR] points of damage it takes (round down). Parasites appear in squares adjacent to Clover; if all these squares are full, the parasite appears in the nearest open square.


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OK, new version of Feeding Tubes that allows it to affect adjacent creatures as well; still looks clunky though.

What else needs to be changed?

 

[Belzamus]

He seems to lack durability. 3000 hp isn't all that much at level 50, let alone 100. His Armor Class is quite low (Touch doesn't even bear mentioning) and his DR might as well not even be there.

I'd honestly, right now, peg him around cr 60, but maybe I'm missing something. It just seems to me he wouldn't even be a speed bump for a level 100 party as it stands.

I don't have anything at that ECL to compare to at the moment, the closest I have is an ECL 124/CR 82 Intermediate Deity who has 18,000 hp, 180 AC, +200 to attack, all saves in the +110 vicinity...either I'm doing something wrong or Cloverfield here is off by a wide margin.

Unfortunately, I've never seen the movie, so I can't make any suggestions on how to fix him. Is there any reason he has to be CR 101? Maybe some kind of Divine Toughness would help him live longer, I don't know if that's too far out of character though.

Looking in the Bestiary, the only things close are the Mercury Colossus, the Orichalcum Golem, Sandalphon, and the Cherubim.

The Mercury Colossus would kill him with maybe a little trouble, as is.

The Orichalcum Golem laughs and nukes him from 20 miles away, doing twice his hp in one hit.

Sandalphon wastes ten rounds deciding just HOW to effortlessly obliterate him.

And the Cherubim roars. Cloverfield dies.

So, something needs to be changed. Either raise him to meet his ECL or lower his ECL to match what's there. If these stats accurately reflect what he does in the movie, I'd suggest lowering his Cr/ECL, because if that's the case, he's clearly not in the league of the likes of Sandalphon.

Wish I had more actual ideas...

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

He seems to lack durability. 3000 hp isn't all that much at level 50, let alone 100. His Armor Class is quite low (Touch doesn't even bear mentioning) and his DR might as well not even be there.

I'd honestly, right now, peg him around cr 60, but maybe I'm missing something. It just seems to me he wouldn't even be a speed bump for a level 100 party as it stands.

I think the target CR needs to be re-evaluated. Looking at my Godzilla on the website, which is a much more powerful beast and only clocks in at CR 88. Theres no way Cloverfield should be anywhere near that in this present incarnation.

I don't have anything at that ECL to compare to at the moment, the closest I have is an ECL 124/CR 82 Intermediate Deity who has 18,000 hp, 180 AC, +200 to attack, all saves in the +110 vicinity...either I'm doing something wrong or Cloverfield here is off by a wide margin.

18,000 hit points, thats quite good. How did you get that?

Unfortunately, I've never seen the movie, so I can't make any suggestions on how to fix him.

What do you mean you haven't seen the movie? Go out and rent the dvd as homework.

The big thing for me is that the Cloverfield monster (allegedly) survives getting hit by a nuke.

Is there any reason he has to be CR 101?

I think the basic idea was to convert from my 4E version (Level 36 Solo Brute) using my Conversion rules...which is CR 97-106.

At CR 88, Godzilla would only convert to a Level 35 Solo Soldier, although I sort of wanted him about Level 40. Reducing the Cloverfield monster by the same amount would bring it down to a Level 31 Solo Brute (4E). Thats CR 51-53, which actually seems fairly appropriate in this case.

Interestingly enough, the Tarrasque looks a bit like the american Godzilla (GINO).

Maybe some kind of Divine Toughness would help him live longer, I don't know if that's too far out of character though.

Maybe some Improved Toughness feats (which Godzilla has in abundance).

Looking in the Bestiary, the only things close are the Mercury Colossus, the Orichalcum Golem, Sandalphon, and the Cherubim.

The Mercury Colossus would kill him with maybe a little trouble, as is.

The Orichalcum Golem laughs and nukes him from 20 miles away, doing twice his hp in one hit.

Sandalphon wastes ten rounds deciding just HOW to effortlessly obliterate him.

And the Cherubim roars. Cloverfield dies.

So, something needs to be changed. Either raise him to meet his ECL or lower his ECL to match what's there. If these stats accurately reflect what he does in the movie, I'd suggest lowering his Cr/ECL, because if that's the case, he's clearly not in the league of the likes of Sandalphon.

Wish I had more actual ideas...

The reason I made Cloverfield Level 36 (4E) was to represent its Mega-sized status, whereby the Tarrasque is merely Gargantuan.

Loking at 4E there is roughly about an 8 level minimum between size differences, albeit with a few exceptions.

So Large starts at about Level 7-8 (although one or two monsters sneak under that).

Huge is about 15-16+ (and Huge monsters are generally always Elites or better).

Gargantuan is about 23-24+ (and Gargantuan monsters are generally Solos).

Therefore Mega-size will be about 31-32+, Giga-size will be about 39-40+, Tera-size will be about 47-48+, etc.

So I suppose we could hypothetically say the Tarrasque is the upper limits of Gargantuan, while the Mega-sized Cloverfield monster is the lower limits of the Mega-size category.

I'd also change the parasites to be something more closely resembling the movie monsters, rather than forcing them into epic monsters (even minions) which they clearly were not. In fact you could probably even substitute Kruthiks (with a bit of tweaking to the poison). Level 4 Skirmishers sounds about right, that would be Level 12 minions. The challenge might be to stop the parasites infecting innocent bystanders rather than worrying about having them take on epic PCs who can stand up to the Cloverfield Monster itself.

...and also convert Godzilla to Level 35 Solo Soldier, which sounds like something I might do tomorrow for the website.

 

[Belzamus]

Hey guys!



I think the target CR needs to be re-evaluated. Looking at my Godzilla on the website, which is a much more powerful beast and only clocks in at CR 88. Theres no way Cloverfield should be anywhere near that in this present incarnation.

Ooh, I forgot about Godzilla, haven't lookedat him in a while.

[/quote]18,000 hit points, thats quite good. How did you get that? [/quote]

Cosmic Toughness + Cosmic Firmament, I believe. Or that might just be in his Divine Realm, I can't remember if he has the latter or not.

What do you mean you haven't seen the movie? Go out and rent the dvd as homework.

Gah, I know, I know, it's on my list.

The big thing for me is that the Cloverfield monster (allegedly) survives getting hit by a nuke.

How big of a nuke? The Kiloton spell averages 400 damage or so plus radiation poisoning.

I think the basic idea was to convert from my 4E version (Level 36 Solo Brute) using my Conversion rules...which is CR 97-106.

Ah.

At CR 88, Godzilla would only convert to a Level 35 Solo Soldier, although I sort of wanted him about Level 40. Reducing the Cloverfield monster by the same amount would bring it down to a Level 31 Solo Brute (4E). Thats CR 51-53, which actually seems fairly appropriate in this case.

I don't know enough about 4E to offer any insight there.

Maybe some Improved Toughness feats (which Godzilla has in abundance).

Those always help.

The reason I made Cloverfield Level 36 (4E) was to represent its Mega-sized status, whereby the Tarrasque is merely Gargantuan.

Loking at 4E there is roughly about an 8 level minimum between size differences, albeit with a few exceptions.

So Large starts at about Level 7-8 (although one or two monsters sneak under that).

Huge is about 15-16+ (and Huge monsters are generally always Elites or better).

Gargantuan is about 23-24+ (and Gargantuan monsters are generally Solos).

Therefore Mega-size will be about 31-32+, Giga-size will be about 39-40+, Tera-size will be about 47-48+, etc.

So I suppose we could hypothetically say the Tarrasque is the upper limits of Gargantuan, while the Mega-sized Cloverfield monster is the lower limits of the Mega-size category.

No more Macro?

I'd also change the parasites to be something more closely resembling the movie monsters, rather than forcing them into epic monsters (even minions) which they clearly were not. In fact you could probably even substitute Kruthiks (with a bit of tweaking to the poison). Level 4 Skirmishers sounds about right, that would be Level 12 minions. The challenge might be to stop the parasites infecting innocent bystanders rather than worrying about having them take on epic PCs who can stand up to the Cloverfield Monster itself.

Things aren't looking too bright for keeping him Cr 101, it seems.

...and also convert Godzilla to Level 35 Solo Soldier, which sounds like something I might do tomorrow for the website.

Cool.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

How big of a nuke? The Kiloton spell averages 400 damage or so plus radiation poisoning.

Unknown, probably 128 KT I would imagine.

No more Macro?

No. I simplified the size changes for 4E so they are:

Mega (x10) - Castle size...like Godzilla
Giga (x1000) - Mountain size...like Typhon
Tera (x1,000,000) - Planet size...like Algol

Things aren't looking too bright for keeping him Cr 101, it seems.

Half that seems to fit better.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

I thought Hammerdown was supposed to be 'just' a MOAB, and Abrams has confirmed that the thing's dead.

I was just going with CR 101 because that' was the middle of the range the conversion guidelines gave, and because it looked like that had been decided before I got involved in the thread.

If I were building the monster straight from the movie- I'd say CR 25-30, honestly; it's bigger and much more agile than the CR20 tarrasque, and flight isn't much use against it since it jumps so high, but I don't think it's actually as tough for its size as the tarrasque is. A MOAB wouldn't do anything to a tarrasque...

Cloverfield isn't a 'significant' enough entity cosmically, in my opinion, to be an Intermediate Deity-equivalent.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

Hiya mate!



Unknown, probably 128 KT I would imagine.

If x64 energy = x2 damage that would only be like a thousand damage or so.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Khisanth mate!

I thought Hammerdown was supposed to be 'just' a MOAB,

Could well be, I don't remember knowing exactly one way or the other. It would make sense to try a MOAB before nukes anyway.

The MOAB would deal about 166 damage in 3E...is that right? (just off the top of my head).

and Abrams has confirmed that the thing's dead.

Has he indeed. Okay, thanks for that.

He also seemed to infer that the monster in the movie was merely an infant.

I was just going with CR 101 because that' was the middle of the range the conversion guidelines gave, and because it looked like that had been decided before I got involved in the thread.

The mistake was mine. I should have converted Godzilla first (to Level 35 Solo Soldier) and then done the Cloverfield monster (between Levels 31-34).

If I were building the monster straight from the movie- I'd say CR 25-30, honestly; it's bigger and much more agile than the CR20 tarrasque, and flight isn't much use against it since it jumps so high, but I don't think it's actually as tough for its size as the tarrasque is. A MOAB wouldn't do anything to a tarrasque...

Arguable. The Tarrasque at best, is something akin to the american Godzilla, which was itself taken out by two missiles from fighter planes.

While the Cloverfield Monster was, as you say killed by the MOAB, it had already taken a pounding from Fighter Jets and Tanks - whether they were hurting it is debateable I suppose.

Cloverfield isn't a 'significant' enough entity cosmically, in my opinion, to be an Intermediate Deity-equivalent.

Agreed. I definately think that Level 30-something Solo Monster (and thus about CR 50+) is a better bet. That puts it roughly on a par with a Demigod (in both 3E and 4E).

A few points of contention remain.

Firstly, if we equate the Tarrasque in part with the American Godzilla, then the 48 HD version (approx. 96 feet tall) would strictly be considered a 'Young' Tarrasque. In the movie, wikipedia lists its height somewhere between about 197-295 feet, lets split the difference for 246 feet. That would give it 123 Hit Dice. Or we could simply triple its Hit Dice (as per advancement rules) to get 144 Hit Dice (288 feet). 144 Hit Dice gives it a target CR of 72.

Clover is listed as 350 feet tall upright, or 250 feet quadruped. But it did seem pretty skinny compared to other Megasaurs, so I think 125 Hid Dice is more or less on the money. If we make a rough attempt to give it a CR equal to half its Hit Dice then it would be about CR 62.

Godzilla's top height is listed as 328 feet, which is 164 Hit Dice, CR 82 or thereabouts being the target.

Godzilla - about CR 82 = Level 34 Solo Soldier
Clover - about CR 62 = Level 32 Solo Brute
Zilla/Advanced Tarrasque* - about CR 72 = Level 33 Solo Brute?
King Ghidorah (210 HD) - CR 105 = Level 36 Solo Artillery

*Conversely that also means that the Level 30 Solo Brute Tarrasque in the 4E Monster Manual 1 is actually representative of a CR 50/100 Hit Dice/200 ft. tall version of the monster.

If a normal character is 1 inch tall, then Godzilla would be about 4 feet 7 inches tall.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

He also seemed to infer that the monster in the movie was merely an infant.

Oh, yes ... what a scary thought.

Arguable. The Tarrasque at best, is something akin to the american Godzilla, which was itself taken out by two missiles from fighter planes.

The Tarrasque regenerates, though. Those missiles might take it down, but it'd be on its feet again in 30 seconds.

Agreed. I definately think that Level 30-something Solo Monster (and thus about CR 50+) is a better bet. That puts it roughly on a par with a Demigod (in both 3E and 4E).

If an infant is going to be CR50+, Demigod level, the adult should be something 'cosmically' significant. An Entity, perhaps, or some planar lord from the Far Place.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Khisanth matey!

Oh, yes ... what a scary thought.

Under normal 3E circumstances, I'd suggest a possible boost to either x4 HD or possibly x8, the latter assuming the Clover monster was a baby, the former assuming it was simply a young child. I think the x4 model definately suits best. Meaning that the adult would have about 500 Hit Dice and be 1000 feet tall (as a quodruped).

In 4E things are a tad different because of how I am using the Mega size rules.

The Tarrasque regenerates, though. Those missiles might take it down, but it'd be on its feet again in 30 seconds.

Thats true. But once they know that, the second time they can just keep blasting it, then chainsaw it into bits and lock them in a vault. If the vault is made of strong enough material I don't think the Tarrasque could regenerate beyond its walls.

If an infant is going to be CR50+, Demigod level, the adult should be something 'cosmically' significant. An Entity, perhaps, or some planar lord from the Far Place.

I had always considered the Clover monster very similar to my Gargouille idea, which was itself based upon a monster from the D&D cartoon. The Gargaouille was a FarRealm entity roughly of Intermediate Deity status.

There is however, an undead monster in the Vampire Bestiary that could pass for the Clover monster.