Cold Iron Brilliant Energy Longsword?

[Nightingale 7]

I lean towards letting it stack for two reasons:
The first is the blatant fact that BE is underpowered,and I find it a bit draconian to impose extra penalties to the player that chose it.

The second,and more important is the nature of cold iron,or silver,or adamantine on that note.They all have the ability to bypass some creatures' DRs,but not by virtue of any physical characteristic they possess.A cold iron sword doesn't cut through a demon's scaled flesh because it's sharper than a similar steel sword,but because it has a mystical ability to punch through that creature's defenses.It's like a natural "bane" ability of the material.
I find it logical that,although the weapon's composition has changed it still retains that mystical(read:magical) quality and remains a potent weapon against demonkind

 

[Chun-tzu]

The second,and more important is the nature of cold iron,or silver,or adamantine on that note.They all have the ability to bypass some creatures' DRs,but not by virtue of any physical characteristic they possess.A cold iron sword doesn't cut through a demon's scaled flesh because it's sharper than a similar steel sword,but because it has a mystical ability to punch through that creature's defenses.It's like a natural "bane" ability of the material.

OR

There's nothing magical at all about silver or cold iron. Certain supernatural creatures just have a weakness to these substances. And transformiing Cold Iron to Brilliant Energy destroys such properties, the same way processing Cold Iron into steel would ruin its fey-killing properties.

I find it logical that,although the weapon's composition has changed it still retains that mystical(read:magical) quality and remains a potent weapon against demonkind

I find it a stretch. These explanations for combining Cold Iron and Brilliant Energy all sound like rationalizations or justifications. If that works for you, great, but it doesn't work for me. Again, it's not unbalanced to allow this. But some things just can't be done. A character can't be both an Elf and a Dwarf. A weapon can't do both slashing and bludgeoning damage (although different parts of the weapon might be able to). And a weapon can't be made of both Cold Iron and Brilliant Energy. One or the other.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A weapon can't do both slashing and bludgeoning damage (although different parts of the weapon might be able to).

Natural weapons have types just as other weapons do. The most common are summarized below.

Bite: The creature attacks with its mouth, dealing piercing, slashing, and bludgeoning damage.

Tentacle: The creature flails at opponents with a powerful tentacle, dealing bludgeoning (and sometimes slashing) damage.

-Hyp.

 

[Nightingale 7]

And a weapon can't be made of both Cold Iron and Brilliant Energy. One or the other.

See,this is where our opinions are differing.In my opinion,the brilliant energy isn't a different substance which replaces the cold iron blade.It is that same cold iron blade that is enchanted to take on another characteristic.This is no lightsaber,and I think you read too much in the flavor text.
Think of it another way:By your view should a brilliant energy weapon lose any flaming,icy,holy etc abilities?After all they were enchanted on a blade that is no longer there!

 

[Bryan898]

Why not just have the weapon deal a type of energy damage? Perphaps force, or maybe even light ala Searing Light, Sunbeam, or Sunburst.. Since Energy Damage ignores damage reduction (as Damage Reduction is written on pg. 291-292 of the DMG), that would solve your cold iron problem. It would also make Brilliant Energy a little better. Most creatures that have damage reduction don't wear armor, so instead of ignoring armor for them, you ignore damage reduction. It would be best against something like an armored vampire, but that's a best case scenario. It would still be worthless against constructs and undead, but at least it might be worth the +4, and solve the need for a golf bag of items.

Curious, while looking through some of the Damage Reduction entries in the DMG and MM, I noticed that it is listed as a EX or a SU, but doesn't give a clear explanation as to when it is one or the other.

As for storing your weapon, you might have to suck it up, spend the 10,000 gp, and buy yourself a glove of storing .

 

[ARandomGod]

See,this is where our opinions are differing.In my opinion,the brilliant energy isn't a different substance which replaces the cold iron blade.It is that same cold iron blade that is enchanted to take on another characteristic.This is no lightsaber,and I think you read too much in the flavor text.
Think of it another way:By your view should a brilliant energy weapon lose any flaming,icy,holy etc abilities?After all they were enchanted on a blade that is no longer there!

Yea, to me this is obvious...

OK, I exaggerate, when this discussion began I could see both points as perfectly valid, while reasoning that the item loosing it's metal property was an idea derived from the flavor text, not from any real rule.

But after discussion it's pretty plain that the metal item is enchanted in such a way that it sheds a lot of light, yet doesn't become actual light in spite of what the text implies... as actual light does not cut either living or non-living material. Instead it retains it's metallic properties (for instance the ability to cut, and it's weight) in all cases with the exception of non-living matter, which it passes through as if it didn't exist. As a side effect of this passing through non-living matter, it sheds light and no longer appears to be made out of anything solid. However, it clearly WAS, and still in some magical way IS the metal that it started out at. Think of it as magical plasma.

 

[Carpe DM]

It depends on what your DM thinks.

Surely, the creative minds here assembled can think of a reason for Cold Iron and Brilliant Energy to both apply (after all, it *does* affect living flesh by means of physical interaction. By the reasoning exhibited here -- i.e., that the blade cannot carry physical characteristics because it is not physical -- no physical effect could stack with brilliant energy, and we know that this is not true).

The real question is what your DM thinks of it. If he's got a good reason to ban it, well, that's what he gets to do.

Personally, I'd permit it. It's within the letter of the rules, it's not imbalancing, and the impact of cold iron is spiritual anyway. The idea of a spiritual weapon able to strike through the physical at the essence of the creature underneath appeals to me.

best,

Carpe

 

[Lela]

It depends on what your DM thinks.

<SNIP>

The real question is what your DM thinks of it. If he's got a good reason to ban it, well, that's what he gets to do.

Many of these arguments remind me of my DM's way of doing things. And I don't mind telling you that it frustraits us players like mad (most of us). While there are other issues involved, one of the big ones is his tendency to ignore the rules and use logic as a defense.

Be it slaughtering the Precise Shot feat, redoing SR (but only applying the changes to players), adjusting weapon properties, or changing the armor sleeping rules. Each time, he says something like "That just doesn't work" or "That's not the way it actually happened." It tends to cause issues in our group.

While often he's probably right (he's the history major), it still bothers us each time he reduces our strengths and puts someone else above us with nothing but DM fiat.

I believe in giving the players the benifit of the doubt when it comes to rules or flavor, just as I give the rules priority over my own ideas even if I'm unsure of them. If it doesn't say "The stubstance no longer has the material properties of its previous form (such as damage reduction or weight)" then I don't add it in.

The PCs have a hard enough time in this world as it is. I don't need to start taking away the powers of their abilities or eqipment. I know how draining that can be to a playe and I would never do it to my PCs.

 

[Carpe DM]

Lela:

I agree. That's why I run a strict rules-based game. I dislike nay-saying, and think it displays a lack of imagination. That's why I said I think this effect is fine.

But, sometimes, a DM is going to have to gap-fill. That's something we as good players have to understand.

Recognizing the necessity of gap-filling does not mean that the DM should always fill gaps in a way that inconveniences players.

best,

Carpe

 

[Lela]

Lela:

I agree. That's why I run a strict rules-based game. I dislike nay-saying, and think it displays a lack of imagination. That's why I said I think this effect is fine.

But, sometimes, a DM is going to have to gap-fill. That's something we as good players have to understand.

Recognizing the necessity of gap-filling does not mean that the DM should always fill gaps in a way that inconveniences players.

best,

Carpe

I completely agree and I do it myself. Usually, when I block a player (it does happen from time to time), it's because they're trying to get away with something wild and crazy or very overpowered. They usually know what I'm going to say before they ask.

In this case, I'd say it's neither of those. Sounds to me like the player wants a lightsaber that can cut through fey. Not a big deal, really (though I assume cold iron is more useful in this game than others), when he's willing to pay for it.

Let the guy have it, it's not going to break the game by any means (certainly not with Brilliant Energy's +4). When it comes down to it, we've already proven that either view can be justified, you might as well let the player be happy.

Besides, if the mage puts up a fuss about how much extra work it is, he might be able to get a favor out of the PC, "You need a purity in the cold iron beyound the norm to make this work. I need you to pick some up from the mines of dooooooom. Of course, it's inhabited by a half-fiend purple dragon from the shadow plane but I'm sure a strong lad like you can handle a little thing like that." Naturally, said artificer fails to mention the little hand of Vecna imprisioned under the dragon's lair. Once the cave is clear, he's a happy man.