Cold Mountain/Civil War history questions

[johnsemlak]

I had a question about the home guard or whatever the people charged with finding deserters in hte South.

I think in the US we pretty much accept the brutality depicted in the movie of the people who hunted down, and executed (often cruelly) deserters and harborers of deserters without a trial. A non-American friend of mine found the extent of that a bit difficult to believe.

So I ask anyone very familiar with such events--were these events realistically depicted in the film?

I realize the sensitivity of this topic and ask that responses concentrate on the facts of the historical events in question.

 

[MarauderX]

My boss is a Civil War fanatic, and has seen every(!) picture (y'know, the ones published in the books) that was ever taken during the time period and can distinguish those that weren't. When driving to a project site for work he would point out the different battlefields and who was there as well as what manuveurs were done and when. All in all, if he says it happened that way I am inclinded to agree, and not just because he hired me 3+ years ago.

Anyway, he says: yes known deserters were often tracked down and killed. News didn't travel as fast in every state, and many were attacked after the war had 'officially' ended when they went home. In a town, they would often question any able-bodied man that would return home from being in the army without a wound. People would talk, and if they thought the war still wasn't over they would question why an ex-soldier was home. It's nothing new to war - the Roman commanders used to kill every 10th man in an army if they ran from a losing fight, and they didn't even desert.

My boss continued: A deserter would often be driven away from home as his family would be the first to suspect, and he would become a recognizable vagrant to others when he might wander from town to town.

His opinion on Cold Mountain: Thought fictional it was very accurate to what may have happened, and said the explosion where the Union army was trapped really happened (the part in the beginning of the movie, I think), and I can't remember which battle he said it was.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

The above post covers everything about right but I'll add some information to today’s military. (If you care)

Uniform Code of Military Justice states that desertion, during times of war, is still punishable by death.

Do they actively hunt you down, no not really as they have your social security number and it's near impossible to escape it. I've heard of people 20 years later getting pulled over for a traffic violation only to discover there in for a very bad day.

 

[Andrew D. Gable]

the explosion where the Union army was trapped really happened (the part in the beginning of the movie, I think), and I can't remember which battle he said it was.

Petersburg, right near Richmond (also about four-five months from the end of the war). That would have been The Crater, blasted out by a Pennsylvania regiment from upstate, made up mainly of ex-coal miners. The Northern troops did the blasting, killed a ton of Southerners, and then stupidly marched right into the hole... where of course the Southern sharpshooters picked them off.

In fact, two brothers buried in the cemetery across the street from where I sit were both killed at The Crater.

 

[Krieg]

It's nothing new to war - the Roman commanders used to kill every 10th man in an army if they ran from a losing fight, and they didn't even desert.

And nary a mention that this is where the term "decimate" originates? tsk tsk!

Do they actively hunt you down, no not really as they have your social security number and it's near impossible to escape it. I've heard of people 20 years later getting pulled over for a traffic violation only to discover there in for a very bad day.

I spent a few months on chaser duty while in the 'Corps. Basically our job was to go & pick up those who were deserters or in some other way fugitives from military jusitce and who were being held by local police departments.

Typically they are returned to the nearest military base (in my case Camp Pendleton) & are kept in a holding company until their paperwork is written up. It usually takes a couple of weeks for the bad conduct or dishonorable discharge to be processed & then they are released. Very rarely would they actually be incarcerated for any length of time.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I spent a few months on chaser duty while in the 'Corps. Basically our job was to go & pick up those who were deserters or in some other way fugitives from military jusitce and who were being held by local police departments.

There have been a couple of movies made about this, the most famous perhaps being "The Last Detail" starring Jack Nicholson.

Typically they are returned to the nearest military base (in my case Camp Pendleton) & are kept in a holding company until their paperwork is written up. It usually takes a couple of weeks for the bad conduct or dishonorable discharge to be processed & then they are released. Very rarely would they actually be incarcerated for any length of time.

IIRC, the last American to be executed for desertion was Pvt. Eddie Slovik. They made a movie based on it back in the '70s starring Martin Sheen.

 

[Krieg]

There have been a couple of movies made about this, the most famous perhaps being "The Last Detail" starring Jack Nicholson.

I actually got a kick out of the pseudo-remake "Chasers" with Tom Berenger & William McNamara. I had a buddy in the Navy who was EXACTLY like Eddie Devane (McNamara's character). Unfortunately none of the individuals we escorted looked anything like Erika Eleniak.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

I spent a few months on chaser duty while in the 'Corps. Basically our job was to go & pick up those who were deserters or in some other way fugitives from military jusitce and who were being held by local police departments.

I've done the bridge chaser training but I've never had the "honor" to use it.

Very rarely would they actually be incarcerated for any length of time.

Quite true and hence the in time of war clause.

 

[Krieg]

I've done the bridge chaser training but I've never had the "honor" to use it.

Believe me you didn't miss anything.

We originally had to go through the school because while on guard duty at Edson Range we had to supervise working parties from the brig.

Not exactly the most exciting duty I ever pulled.

 

[Douane]

Petersburg, right near Richmond (also about four-five months from the end of the war). That would have been The Crater, blasted out by a Pennsylvania regiment from upstate, made up mainly of ex-coal miners. The Northern troops did the blasting, killed a ton of Southerners, and then stupidly marched right into the hole... where of course the Southern sharpshooters picked them off. [...]

Actually a bit earlier. The battle of the crater happened on July 30, 1864.

Estimates of the crater run from 150-200 feet long, 60 feet wide, and 30 feet deep to 150 feet long, 97 feet wide and 30 feet deep.

Three divisions of the IX Corps under Ambrose E. Burnside (originator of the sideburns) had been ordered into the breach caused by the explosion, with a division of the US Colored Troops under General Ferrero bringing up the rear. This division was the one originally intended to be the first into the breach and had trained for a week, however rudimentary, how to exploit the situation caused by the blast and, more important, to skirt the edges of the crater. The initial order had been rescinded to avoid a possible backlash for “sacrificing” Colored Troops and to have (formally) more experienced (but also battle-weary) troops lead the attack.

The troops now bringing up the front went straight into the crater instead but couldn’t climb out of it as easily. Ferrero’s division advanced around the crater as planned but, without support of any kind, were pushed into the crater by the defenders. When the confederate forces recovered and reserves (including artillery) arrived, they launched several counterattacks, led by Maj. Gen. William Mahone, culminating in a bayonet charge into the crater.

Approximate losses (numbers vary): Union 4,000 Confederacy 1,300


Burnside was finally relieved of his command after this disaster.