Coming in May: Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes! [UPDATED!]

So they just gave the title and showed the cover mock-ups; no specific info till Monday?

 

[vecna00]

I wouldn't be surprised if we see the Phaerimm and Sharn in this book. It would be quite nice for them to finally make their appearance!

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I am glad they are going closer to the 3E version of Shadar Kai than the 4E version, though I do not remember ever running into any in my 3E years, and I avoided 4E like the Plague, so this new 5E version of them is totally cool with me since I have no baggage from earlier editions related to them.

And I wish I had been taking notes during Dragon Talk today when they were giving so many details, as I thought there was a fair bit more than what [MENTION=6670153]gyor[/MENTION] included in his post.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I don't remember which book, Dungeon Masters Guide or PHB, but Elves in Arvandar the Elf after life end up as Celestials, so yes there are Eldarin Celestials, as well as Sea Elf Celestials, High Elf Celestials, Drow Celestials, Wood Elf Celestials, Avariel Celestials, and the real WTF, Shadar Kai Celestials.

That’s not what I mean. I don’t know what your personal edition lore background is, so you may already know this, but I’ll explain it for the benefit of those who might not.

In 2e/3e each of the nine alignments had a primary Exemplar race. I use race extremely loosely, because it was in fact a creature category with a wide variety of forms from weak to strong. Some of these will look familiar to modern players, others might not:

LG - Archons (completely different than what 4e used the name for)
NG - Guardinals
CG - Eladrin (again, completely different than the mortal race of the same name used in 4e)
LN - Modrons
N (“true” neutral) - Rilmani
CN - Slaad
LE - Devils
NE - Yugoloths
CE - Demons

Just like demons and devils come in all shapes, sizes, and power levels, so do these other creature categories. For example, Guardinals are mostly humanoid in form but have animalistic features (of various animals depending on the particular type of Guardinal). Archons range from glowing balls of light, to humanoids with swords for arms, anthropomorphic animals, and winged angel like beings with trumpets. Eladrin have a feyish theme, but are considered Celestial Exemplars like the other two good types. They range from winged pixie like creatures to things such as watery, deserty, fiery, knightly, and lordly types. (Rilmani are humanoid in shape, but appear to be made of various types off metal—not in a robotic or construct manner though.)

In general what these creatures all share is that they are formed from the souls off deceased mortals of the appropriate alignment. The good species are the counterparts of the evil species like devils and demons. Basically they occupy a similar cosmological place as angels. (They aren’t referred to by that name however. The angels, also known as Aasimon (ever wander where the name “aasimar” as a mortal with angelic ancestry came from? Now you know.) are separate beings, who are more dedicated to the gods of good, but they also have similar types and rankings.)

I hope it is obvious why converting Eladrin exemplars into an elven subrace (even if it got a changed creature type) completely misses the boat both conceptually and mechanically.

 

[vecna00]

That’s not what I mean. I don’t know what your personal edition lore background is, so you may already know this, but I’ll explain it for the benefit of those who might not.

In 2e/3e each of the nine alignments had a primary Exemplar race. I use race extremely loosely, because it was in fact a creature category with a wide variety of forms from weak to strong. Some of these will look familiar to modern players, others might not:

LG - Archons (completely different than what 4e used the name for)
NG - Guardinals
CG - Eladrin (again, completely different than the mortal race of the same name used in 4e)
LN - Modrons
N (“true” neutral) - Rilmani
CN - Slaad
LE - Devils
NE - Yugoloths
CE - Demons

Just like demons and devils come in all shapes, sizes, and power levels, so do these other creature categories. For example, Guardinals are mostly humanoid in form but have animalistic features (of various animals depending on the particular type of Guardinal). Archons range from glowing balls of light, to humanoids with swords for arms, anthropomorphic animals, and winged angel like beings with trumpets. Eladrin have a feyish theme, but are considered Celestial Exemplars like the other two good types. They range from winged pixie like creatures to things such as watery, deserty, fiery, knightly, and lordly types. (Rilmani are humanoid in shape, but appear to be made of various types off metal—not in a robotic or construct manner though.)

In general what these creatures all share is that they are formed from the souls off deceased mortals of the appropriate alignment. The good species are the counterparts of the evil species like devils and demons. Basically they occupy a similar cosmological place as angels. (They aren’t referred to by that name however. The angels, also known as Aasimon (ever wander where the name “aasimar” as a mortal with angelic ancestry came from? Now you know.) are separate beings, who are more dedicated to the gods of good, but they also have similar types and rankings.)

I hope it is obvious why converting Eladrin exemplars into an elven subrace (even if it got a changed creature type) completely misses the boat both conceptually and mechanically.

Just throwing it out there, I really miss the actual Eladrin. Particularly, the Ghaele and Tulani!

 

[vpuigdoller]

I don't remember which book, Dungeon Masters Guide or PHB, but Elves in Arvandar the Elf after life end up as Celestials, so yes there are Eldarin Celestials, as well as Sea Elf Celestials, High Elf Celestials, Drow Celestials, Wood Elf Celestials, Avariel Celestials, and the real WTF, Shadar Kai Celestials.

Speaking of Shadar Kai it's confirmed they are now Elves, WTF, how does one explain there connection to the Netheril Empire and that there is a ritual to turn a human into a Shadar Kai? Massive recon.

They are even reconning Tieflings from within the edition itself, the SCAG had rules for none Infernal Tieflings. It also noted that several of the Mulhorand Gods took the form of Tieflings (probably Set and Sebek, and weirdly maybe Anhur who is Chaotic Good). So how does that make sense when now Tieflings are only linked to the Devils. Heck none Infernal Tieflings appear in the 5e Novels?

The stuff on none humanoid Eldarin sounds cool.

A lot of weird stuff are going to be in this book, like the reason Elfs have so many different forms is that they used to be shapeshifters before their fall from being Fey (this is before the schism between the Drow and other Elven Races), and they will talk about the time when they were fey.

That Shadar Kai are now Elves means that
A) Elven High Magic should work for them,
B) they are welcome on Arvandar, even though they just fought a war and helped destroy a Elf nation called Myth Drannar.
C) Many don't speak Elvish, they speak Netherese or whatever they spoke in Nantir Vale.
D) They have aquired some Elven abilities like immunity to sleep that they didn't have before.
E) Shadar Kai can become Spellsingers.
F) Shadar Kai can take Elven Accuracy

I wonder if Fey'ri the demonic elves get a mention.

For new monsters Demons, Devils, Archdevils, Levethan, Gnomes built Clockwork constructs, variants to Cambions, Demon and Devil Cultists, creatures from the Shadowfell associated with Shadar Kai, non humanoid Eldarin (fey and maybe celestial). Some new Duegar and Gith monsters. 130+ pages of Monsters is a lot. I don't know for sure, but I'm betting the Lich Queen of the Githyanki are in. New Yugoloths are in.

For races and subraces it appears there are starting with Sea Elves (yeah), Eldarin (yeah), Shadar Kai (yeah, but also WTF???), Tiefling Subraces linked to the Archdevils (except Asmodeus who is just the default Tiefling). And the Gith, Githzerai and Githyanki subraces.

I really hope they have some kind of note dealing with FR and Tieflings and Shadar Kai. Sea Elves are easy as are Githzerai and Githyanki.

Sections include the Blood War, Elves vs. Drow, Dwarves vs. Duegar, Gith vs. Mindflayers, and Halflings and Gnomes chilling out in their own chapter that is free from major conflicts, but at least Gnomes get an invention table. I wonder if Deep Gnomes and Whisper Halflings get discussed in this Chapter.

It seems like the Player section is going to be very small, just one race, with 3 subraces for Elves (Sea, Eldarin, Shadar Kai), and 8 for Tieflings (Zariel, Mephosilies, Belzebub, Feirna/Beliel, Glaysa, Levisitus, Dispater, Mammon), Gith (Githyanki and Githzerai). That's probably less space then Volo's Guide To Monsters gave to races.

Upcoming D&D Beyond video on Elves.

Shadar Kai gain Trance, Fey Ancestory, Keen Senses, Elvish, (they had Darkvision already), and a 700 year life span (or more).

I’m not happy at all about the Shadar Kai been elfs now, it doesn’t even make sense.

Edit: Well maybe they are trying to retcon them back to fey idk..

 

[GarrettKP]

Shadar Kai were originally Fey that got corrupt by the Shadowfell. If anything making them an Elf Subrace is more in line with the Races origins than their representation in 4e.

 

[Lylandra]

Hmmmm. This makes me wonder if the big adventure this year will be The Great Modron March or Blood War.

But on the whole, this is the first WotC book in a while that managed to check every “Things I don’t care about much” box. The Gith/MF stuff seems semi interesting.

Also, *not* a fan of the metaphysics that Good becomes Bad if it wins. That way lies nihilism. No thanks.

I'm more of a fan of "the multiverse will balance itself". But maybe Mordenkainen is portrayed as the "active neutral-fanatic" that he is. Because who the heck would possibly ally with this guy if he is anything but trustworthy?

 

[gyor]

Shadar Kai were originally Fey that got corrupt by the Shadowfell. If anything making them an Elf Subrace is more in line with the Races origins than their representation in 4e.

They we're not a major race prior to 4e, but they exploded in importance to both FR and Nantir Vale settings.

The mechanics still resemble 4e Shadar Kai.

Still I get what your saying.

I just want a side bar for FR that explains how the Shadar Kai in the setting became Elves.

 

[Parmandur]

They we're not a major race prior to 4e, but they exploded in importance to both FR and Nantir Vale settings.

The mechanics still resemble 4e Shadar Kai.

Still I get what your saying.

I just want a side bar for FR that explains how the Shadar Kai in the setting became Elves.

Considering that the Yuan-Ti section in Volo's never mentions a bit of their FR origin, I wouldn't bet on it. 4E lore is out, retconned and ignored, and Canon in general is fuzzy.

 

[gyor]

Considering that the Yuan-Ti section in Volo's never mentions a bit of their FR origin, I wouldn't bet on it. 4E lore is out, retconned and ignored, and Canon in general is fuzzy.

Yeah I wasn't impressed by that.