D&D 5E (2014) Companion thread to 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part XIV: Wizard)

[CleverNickName]

Three eliminations in 5 hours...including Evocation, which some folks insisted would somehow win. Instead, Divination is in the lead by a comfortable margin. And for all the gish-hate of the previous thread, Bladesinger and War Magic are the second-favorites.

This is turning out to be a very strange Survivor thread...

 

[Undrave]

Three eliminations in 5 hours...including Evocation, which some folks insisted would somehow win. Instead, Divination is in the lead by a comfortable margin. And for all the gish-hate of the previous thread, Bladesinger and War Magic are the second-favorites.

This is turning out to be a very strange Survivor thread...

Divination is the only one I really have experience with so it kinda wins my upvote by default. I specifically targetted Evocation to avoid a situation where a bland subclass coasts to victory by not being controversial enough to be downvoted. Now that it’s gone I’m not quite sure what to target We already have the Shepperd in the finals so we don’t need another Conjurer, the Necromancer and Transmuter are kinda let down down by lackluster spell lists… Enchatment is icky, Illusion is too DM dependant, and Bladesinger should have been a class.

War Magic has ton of defenses but it’s not particularly Gish-like otherwise.

 

[TwoSix]

My main problem with the current D&D wizard is its thematic creep. Wizards should have access to a few select areas of "magic"; spatial and temporal magic, force effects, elemental energy evocation (fireballs and lightning bolts), matter transmutation, warding magic, and some divination.

Spell areas like planar summoning, necromancy, illusions and mental magic, should all be moved out from wizardry and moved to other classes to give them more thematic breadth.

The only wizard subclass I'm willing to upvote is bladesinger, and even then, I'd rather use it on a sorcerer or bard or druid instead.

 

[Undrave]

My main problem with the current D&D wizard is its thematic creep. Wizards should have access to a few select areas of "magic"; spatial and temporal magic, force effects, elemental energy evocation (fireballs and lightning bolts), matter transmutation, warding magic, and some divination.

Spell areas like planar summoning, necromancy, illusions and mental magic, should all be moved out from wizardry and moved to other classes to give them more thematic breadth.

The only wizard subclass I'm willing to upvote is bladesinger, and even then, I'd rather use it on a sorcerer or bard or druid instead.

I agree with you, but you know the Wizard players would never stand for that.

 

[TwoSix]

I agree with you, but you know the Wizard players would never stand for that.

Oh, I know; clinging to old executions of tropes the game itself helped create is a persistent problem that D&D has had.

 

[Tonguez]

Divination is the only one I really have experience with so it kinda wins my upvote by default. I specifically targetted Evocation to avoid a situation where a bland subclass coasts to victory by not being controversial enough to be downvoted. Now that it’s gone I’m not quite sure what to target We already have the Shepperd in the finals so we don’t need another Conjurer, the Necromancer and Transmuter are kinda let down down by lackluster spell lists… Enchatment is icky, Illusion is too DM dependant, and Bladesinger should have been a class.

War Magic has ton of defenses but it’s not particularly Gish-like otherwise.

Yeah considering that Conjuring includes teleportation and object summoning that they went with conjuring killer bunnies for the capstone ability was kinda lame. And yes I too targetted Evocation because its boom boom boring (though it does make an okay wizard for newbies).

Ive been upvoting Scribes as the most Generalist Wizard class but I do like Bladesingers though they are beaten out by Hexblades as the best way to do caster with a sword, plus they have too much Elf theming than I’d like.

its going to be interesting to see what wins this, so far it looks like the Diviners Portent is really popular

My main problem with the current D&D wizard is its thematic creep. Wizards should have access to a few select areas of "magic"; spatial and temporal magic, force effects, elemental energy evocation (fireballs and lightning bolts), matter transmutation, warding magic, and some divination.

that seems to be a very combat focussed list
while I do agree that thematic creep has always been a problem for wizards i dont think moving those other options out is the answer.

 

[TwoSix]

that seems to be a very combat focussed list
while I do agree that thematic creep has always been a problem for wizards i dont think moving those other options out is the answer.

I firmly believe the core wizard chassis should be combat focused. And divination and transmutations provide plenty of non-combat support and utility functions. Subclasses can always be used to expand utility, also.

Illusionists, enchanters, summoners, and necromancers are all concepts that are broad enough for their own classes or focused subclasses in other classes.

 

[Undrave]

I firmly believe the core wizard chassis should be combat focused. And divination and transmutations provide plenty of non-combat support and utility functions. Subclasses can always be used to expand utility, also.

Illusionists, enchanters, summoners, and necromancers are all concepts that are broad enough for their own classes or focused subclasses in other classes.

I think they should take ALL of the mind stuff out of the Wizard so they can make a Psion who isn't just 'New Coke of Wizard' and instead have a schtick of its own.

 

[CleverNickName]

I think they should take ALL of the mind stuff out of the Wizard so they can make a Psion who isn't just 'New Coke of Wizard' and instead have a schtick of its own.

Githyanki race + Sorcerer (Aberrant Mind subclass) + the optional Spell Points rule in the DMG gives me 95% of what I'm looking for in a psion. The other 5% is just house-ruling it to use Intelligence instead of Charisma, and changing the vocabulary...psi armor instead of mage armor, psi crystal instead of arcane focus, etc.

I suppose a Gith Wizard + the UA Psion subclass + Spell Points could get me about 50% of the way there, but I think it would be more trouble than it's worth. There's a reason why WotC gave the psi subclass to the Sorcerer.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Man, a good illusionist would be awesome. Image spells are fun, but that's not all illusion is. I want to conjure whole scenarios into being with things like real furniture they think they're sitting on and a nice cool drink that soothes their parched throat... right until I turn off the spell and you cough up sand and sink onto the spikes.