Compare oWoD w/ nWoD

[Mercule]

I played the old World of Darkeness stuff for years and years, but haven't picked up any of the nWoD stuff, yet. A couple of my players have voiced an interest in switching after the current campaign ends, though.

How is the system and general setting different? What about the individual game lines? I know from the preview that I'm probably going to like the new Werewolf more than the old version -- a lot more. But we normally played Vampire or Mage and I'm not getting a good read on those games.

Vampire doesn't sound too different, other than there being fewer clans and things maybe being a bit less distinct/class-like. Is the basic idea of a Camarilla (regardless of name) kept? How about a Sabbat? Is there still a caster bloodline ala the Tremere? Is it still focused on "personal horror" (the angst of losing your soul) and the insane politics? What else would I want to know before deciding whether to take a look at Requiem vs. just returning to Masquerade? I'm actually hoping that there are some pretty good differences, because I was really starting to feel like I'd explored all the major themes of V:tM as far as I cared to.

Mage, on the other hand, sounds very different. The impression I've gotten is that it much more resembles houses within an Order of Hermes than the broad Traditions of Ascension. As far as I'm aware, there is no Technocracy or Ascension War anymore. It actually sounds like Mage is the most changed of the games, from what I've seen. What's the basic idea? How is the magic system changed?

Thanks for any input.

 

[GreatLemur]

Mage, on the other hand, sounds very different. The impression I've gotten is that it much more resembles houses within an Order of Hermes than the broad Traditions of Ascension. As far as I'm aware, there is no Technocracy or Ascension War anymore. It actually sounds like Mage is the most changed of the games, from what I've seen. What's the basic idea? How is the magic system changed?

Yeah, as far as I can tell, it looks like they've really torn the guts out of Mage. Basically, instead of Mages being basically-kinda-sorta-gods who change the world through will and belief, and just think that they're wizards, scientists, or whatevever strange orphan paradigm you can come up with . . . they really are just wizards. Who cast spells. And there are only five different flavors of magic. Each of which is linked to one of the metaphorical "towers" that all magic comes from (which has something to do with Atlantis, if you can freaking believe that), so that the setting's very cosmology has no room for new kinds of magic.

Pretty friggin disappointing, if you ask me.

 

[cmrscorpio]

I never played or owned the old Werewolf or Mage, but I have played a couple chronicles of old Vampire and own the new Vampire corebook (but have yet to play).

New Vampire looks to be even more focused on personal horror, and the politics of the Camarilla/Sabat have been left behind in favor of alleigiances to societies that are based along the lines of what used to be the different Roads, although they all have a much more religious bent to them.

The major "magic" disciplines are no longer linked with the major clans in the core rulebook, but you can still earn dots in them.

In all of the nWod, the metaplots that attempted to drive the product lines in particular directions are completely absent from the core books. In Vampire particular, the intricate, well documented origin and history of the Kindred is no more. The concept of a vampire's "generation" is no more. These have been replaced by some very interesting dynamics in Kindred culture that opens up alot of new roleplaying opportunities.

 

[Mercule]

In all of the nWod, the metaplots that attempted to drive the product lines in particular directions are completely absent from the core books. In Vampire particular, the intricate, well documented origin and history of the Kindred is no more. The concept of a vampire's "generation" is no more. These have been replaced by some very interesting dynamics in Kindred culture that opens up alot of new roleplaying opportunities.

Hmm... In thinking about it, maybe it was more the metaplots that I was getting tired of.

I'm not sure what to make of the new Mage, then. I had kinda complained that it didn't feel "wizardy" enough and I've always hated the "belief changes reality" paradigm. Still, Mage really did its think well -- a bit like Shadowrun is the exception I allow to my "don't mix magic and tech" rule.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

oMage was my favorite, but I understand the logic of what they did:

If you came to oMage without knowing a thing about it, you'd open the book and say "where the hell are the wizards? Where the hell is the magic? What is that guy doing dressed like Buck Rogers?"

When it came time to reimagine the franchise, they started with "OK, let's make them wizards this time."

The good news, though, is that in the supplemental books, they've given a lot of the oMage flavor back optionally, although belief no longer can turn the world into a jelly donut if you get enough suckers, er, Sleepers to believe it.

 

[GreatLemur]

oMage was my favorite, but I understand the logic of what they did:

If you came to oMage without knowing a thing about it, you'd open the book and say "where the hell are the wizards? Where the hell is the magic? What is that guy doing dressed like Buck Rogers?"

Mage was always the most mindbending, expectation-confounding oWoD line, that's for damn sure. I can understand the business motivation to make the new game about real, honest magic (Hedge Wizard: The Simplification), but I really wish there was a place in nWoD for the Sons of Ether.

 

[Mercule]

Mage was always the most mindbending, expectation-confounding oWoD line, that's for damn sure. I can understand the business motivation to make the new game about real, honest magic (Hedge Wizard: The Simplification), but I really wish there was a place in nWoD for the Sons of Ether.

Heh. Yeah, the SoE really grew on me after a while. Verbena, Dreamspeakers, Euthanatos, etc. I could take or leave, but I was greatly entertained by the couple of Ethers I had in my games.

 

[GreatLemur]

Heh. Yeah, the SoE really grew on me after a while. Verbena, Dreamspeakers, Euthanatos, etc. I could take or leave, but I was greatly entertained by the couple of Ethers I had in my games.

Yeah, the Sons of Ether are reason enough to play Mage by themselves. I could dig an all-Sons campaign, easy. Hell, I could play an all-Void Engineers game, too. It's really easy to make the Technocracy into good guys.

But I think White Wolf's reliance on traditions/clans/etc. is really one of their biggest handicaps, and I think it's actually getting worse. There at least used to be the option of not being part of a big, lifestyle-defining supernatural club (Orphans!); now choices like that are as necessary and rigid of character class and race . . . with no multiclassing or templates allowed.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

That's too bad. Mage was my favorite out of the oWoD game because of their reality-bending and strange ways.

 

[Stone Dog]

Yeah, as far as I can tell, it looks like they've really torn the guts out of Mage. Basically, instead of Mages being basically-kinda-sorta-gods who change the world through will and belief, and just think that they're wizards, scientists, or whatevever strange orphan paradigm you can come up with . . . they really are just wizards. Who cast spells. And there are only five different flavors of magic. Each of which is linked to one of the metaphorical "towers" that all magic comes from (which has something to do with Atlantis, if you can freaking believe that), so that the setting's very cosmology has no room for new kinds of magic.

Pretty friggin disappointing, if you ask me.

Except for the fact that there are dozens of ways people think about magic. The basic principles are unified and unarguable, but the practices vary dramatically from population to population. Tools and techniques are still varied, even though each Path will always have two arcana in common, two Acanthus mages may well be very different from each other.

Magic comes from the Supernal realm, not the Watchtowers. The Supernal realm is what the world should be, but the ancient mage kings (the island empire is called many things, Atlantis is just the most common memory of it and is the default title) shattered the world and we live in a pale shadow of what could be.

There is plenty of room for new types of magic. A new Watchtower maybe discovered or founded by the PCs. Legacies change the way the Mage interacts with magic as a whole. Exposure to the Abyss which seperates the Supernal and Fallen realms could create twisted Paths. Rejection of all magic can push somebody to a strange direction of supernatural power.

The main difference between oWoD and nWoD that I've noticed is that the first is more immediately sexy than the second. The first is a pumping nightclub that is exciting the moment you walk in the door and the second is a discrete social club that the more you stay the more you find out is a strange and interesting world to carve a niche into. I didn't care for the nWoD much at first, but the more it rolled around in my head and got comfortable the more I found that the whispers were appealing and inspiring.