And they are not going around looking to spend thousands either. To use your previous example, there are not people that go shopping for Ferraris and Rolex's while also eating Ramen noodles and living in the projects. Misers are not going to be in the part of town where magic studded leather is sold, let alone be shopping for it.
So, I can't have a person who is saving their money for a magical item, because people with money either never spend it on anything and thus wouldn't seek magical protection, or they could never have enough self-control to spend simply on food to save the money in the first place.
I'm not sure I am the one with the Roleplaying problem here.
Lemunds chest is one place to put a spare. You can also give a spare to another PC, leave it with an inkeeper (and pay him), leave it at your camp ..... but other than those things, yes you will have to backtrack
So, now we are making sure to have a specific spell, with an expensive material component. Or hoping that whoever is targeting the wizard isn't smart enough to look for other copies in the party's gear.
Look, I get that wizards can make copies of their spellbook, and that in certain campaigns that is smart. But it isn't how we play, we don't target the class's abilities to nerf them. Could it possibly happen emergently? I guess, but it has never come up before, and none of us expect it to.
IF they are not in combat already sure. Opening a door, throwing a lever, picking up an object, getting a potion out of your pack - I think these are all examples in the PHB, in the combat section of the PHB to boot, and you can not do any of them with an item in both hands. If you start the turn with an item in both hands you need to drop it or use an action to do any of these things.
How about this as an example - you are holding your sword and shield and you want to drink a potion of healing. Just like the door example, you have to drop your sword on the ground to do that this turn. Are you going to tell me you never drink potions in combat either? Or maybe you use your foot to kick your potion out of your pack and open it.
If we are playing RAW? No, we don't use potions of healing in combat except to give them to another player who is making death saves. A full action to heal less than a full round of combat's damage? That is wasting our time on hoping they miss us.
Now, we have homebrewed to allow a person to use a potion as a bonus action, so they see a little bit more use, but honestly, still not much. We do a lot more with magical healing or various abilities in the thick of combat and save the potions for later.
And as for the other actions you listed. We don't open and close doors after combat starts, we don't mess with levers after combat starts (and you could totally through a lever with a shield or sword hand). None of this has ever come up in 7 years of 5e game play. And if it did, there are people who aren't using the shield, who can do the thing.
Maybe, but now you are counting a fighting style in there and one he chose over others. When you start looking at that you need to start considering monk abilities too, like BA dodge for example.
In combat a fighter with a 21 AC is going to get hit by attacks more often than a monk with a 21 AC, so equal is not really equal.
1) "He cannot catch up without magic" was your claim. Fighting Styles are not magic, and they let him catch up.
2) An entirely passive ability that is always on versus one that requires a resource and a bonus action and the choice to lower their damage specifically. That is very hard to directly compare.
And, I want to take a moment here, because we've been getting some side-tracks and some rabbit holes. I assume that the classes are (roughly) balanced. If you take the fighter out of the PHB and the Monk out of the PHB, they are roughly equivalent in what they can do.
However, classes were not balanced with feats and magic items in mind.
And this is where the monk has been suffering I think. There are very few feats and very few magical items designed for them. But also, ideally, magical items should be balanced against magical items. And the Monk getting BoD is getting a boost as is, which they should be getting, because Magical Items are a boost to the class. But, all that boost is is +2 AC on a Rare item. And, if we look +2 AC on a Rare item for the Fighter doesn't require attunement, even though it puts them potentially higher than the monk, and it can stack with other AC boosting items like Armor.
That is the complaint. That is the disconnect. That +2 AC on the Monk is somehow considered more valuable and needing to be regulated compared to the Fighter getting anywhere between a +1 and a +6 depending on the number and rarity of items. Even though, with completely non-magical set-ups, the fighter has easier access and ultimately higher AC than the monk. The balance of the Magical Items is not right.
What if they do? It doesn't have any effect on the central hypothesis - BOD is no better than a mundane, 50gp shield.
Which, in raw AC numbers, it isn't. It is +2 AC, a shield is +2 AC. BoD means that you have a free hand, but also that you use an attunment slot and that you cannot wear any armor to gain the benefit. Shield means that you don't have a free hand, but it stacks with literally anything except BoD.
For a person who can use armor and a shield, the shield is just flat better 90% of the time.
Like I said, we had a magic shield no one in the party wanted. Armor and shields provide AC? Good job stating the obvious.
Yeah it will match or beat the Monk in AC .... but so will taking dodge every turn, or using your concentration on shield of faith or a dozen other things. AC isn't everything though and a shield +1 is uncommon because it isn't that great.
Again, magical items should be balanced against magical items. +2 AC from a Rare item should be equivalent. You want to bring in spells and dodging and all of this other stuff to muddy the waters, but at the end of the day you can't obscure this fact.
A +2 shield gives a +2 magical AC bonus, and does not require attunement, and can stack with any armor, even magical armor. BoD gives a +2 magical AC bonus, requires attunement and requires wearing no armor and not using a shield. These items are supposed to be equivalent, but they clearly are not.
Unarmored defense does not work with shields, so shield proficiency would be irrelevant unless his wisdom is below 14. Further he would lose his martial arts attack and flurry of blows ability if he is holding a weapon in the other hand (unless he dropped it after attacking).
Yes, I know how the rules work. However, if there was a monk released that could use a shield without losing all that stuff, hypothetically, then the mundane shield is offering pretty much all of the benefits of BoD. That is the point. That is why I don't understand why this item requires attunement, it is only going to be used by one or two classes, and it's benefit doesn't reach beyond other similar items.
How does it matter at all?
Because if I get told "and you will all be rewarded for your service" and all of my companions get rewarded, and I get NOTHING then that saps the fun out of it, doesn't it? My character is being cheated, for literally no reason.
You (player) were getting to play. Your character could spend the next year of game time complaining and joking with the others about how you were screwed.
Oh yes, so funny. "Hey guys, remember that time you all got really cool magical items for saving that dimension, and I got nothing? Wasn't that so funny how you guys got the reward they promised, but a random quirk of fate means I got nothing at all. So amusing, hey, do you think I'll get anything for this next adventure?"
By the way, no, that isn't fun, that isn't something I'm going to joke about.
And acting like "you were given the gift of playing the game" comes into this at all is insulting. I'd have been fine if no one got a reward for this. We didn't expect a reward for this. But the DM said we were getting a reward, he said it was coming from a place of giving us incredibly magical items, and then because he rolled the dice I got nothing.
Being cheated isn't fun. It isn't amusing. It isn't just part of the game.
Rolls are rolls, it is part of the game.
So is taking hp damage. I would have complained if my reward was 8d6 fire damage to the face too.
And my entire point was that this was an inappropriate time to roll. I guess you have no problem with the potential of being screwed over by good aligned master craftsmen who are thanking you for doing massively heroic things, but that does bother me. The DM just didn't want to bother looking through the book for rewards, so he rolled on a spreadsheet. We could have gotten cursed items that harmed our characters as a "reward"
I don't understand how you can't see that that is detrimental to the game.
Ok, I guess, but how many players are that guy? Do you wear armor into the bathtub too?
He doesn't get in the bathtub. Bathtubs aren't invented.
And, who cares how many players are that guy? You said it was a roleplaying problem. It isn't. It is roleplaying.
Flavor is the whole point
When flavor gets in the way of fun, then there are problems.
I guess if your character is that stuffy and serious it makes sense. Most characters I play with do things like drink and gamble and joke around and do all sorts of stuff they would not do if the were constantly looking over their shoulder waiting to be ambushed.
Nothing wrong with being prepared for trouble. It just means we can transition smoothly from doing other things to danger. And in the worlds of DnD that sort of preparedness makes sense.
Maybe, or maybe you used all your movement and killed one enemy with your first attack, now you have a second attack. Maybe are throwing it at the guy trying to flee and raise the alarm, while the guy who is going to pick it up is 10 feet away from you.
Can you honestly say you have never had a character with extra attack mix a range and melee attack ... or like I said above wanted to drink a potion, or use a scroll, or light a torch or anything else that requires a free hand in combat?
Only clerics, druids, and paladins can use scrolls while using shields, to me knowledge, and no, we rarely ever use scrolls. We tend to get stuff that just isn't very useful in scroll form and save them for RP moments.
Covered potions
Lighting a torch should not be done in combat, and we rarely bother with torches. Between lanterns, the light cantrips, and darkvision, there is rarely a need for torches. And there is no reason you can't have a lantern strapped to you, and we generally light those before combat.
So, again, no. It doesn't come up.
And, as for your other example, yeah, sometimes it sucks that you miss out on an attack. Happens. But, if that were the situation, that you killed a guy, and even if you used all your movement you couldn't reach melee with a second, then you have to consider the options. If you stay where you are at, can he reach you? If no, he can't pick up your weapon and attack you with it. If yes, then don't drop your weapon, in fact, fall back a little, see if you can't get him to overextend.
One guy is running to raise the alarm, but a second is standing there? Lots wrong with that scenario. Even if you kill the first guy, why isn't the second running to raise the alarm? But, let us say you are right, throwing a javelin would kill one guy, but cause a second to run up to me, grab my own weapon and hit me with it. Great. Let's do that. Because the alarm being raised is worse, right?
It is all about calculating what you want, and what is likely to happen. If dropping your weapon allows you to be more likely to reach your goal, that is what you do. This isn't that hard to wrap your mind around.
Not really. The difference is small unless you are a caster with the shield spell or you can use or you have defensive duelist or some other way of imposing a penalty or disadvantage after the attack roll.
Against a foe with a +10 attack a person with an 18AC is going to get hit 18% more often than a person with a 20AC (assuming they can't do the things above). If you get attacked 50 times in an adventuring day it is about 32 hits vs 27 hits. In terms of damage it is less than 18% difference because of the criticals.
Now if you can cast shield or blur or you are a defensive duelist, or war magic wizard or something, you can make substantially more mileage out of that difference.
If the difference is that small, why is it a problem to have BoD take no attunement?
Do it all the time, usually I usually knock the enemy prone though, not back 5 feet (unless I am knocking him off a bridge or a ledge or something). knock a melee enemy prone also uses up half his movement when he gets back up, severely restricting his mobility and options. Knock him prone, use fast hands to throw down some caltrops and then move your full movement and you have cost him two to three turns before he can get to you or really anyone else if the party plays it smart. IT is more than two or three if he actually tries to move through the caltrops at a normal pace and fails his save.
Enemy goes invisible and ready action to grapple when he makes his attack, then you can grab him and he can't get away and hide again and your allies pound him. Use shove to push a guy away then use bonus action dash to move across the battlefield (or flee).
Also you can move wherever you want with the grappled guy. he can't move but you can move him, that is the main point of it. He can attack the Rogue but only the Rogue or someone else within 5 feet unless he makes a missile attack (with disadvantage) or a spell attack. Drag him into a web, or into a cloud of daggers or really anywhere you want to put him and you get to keep attacking him every turn while he is grappled.
The other thing it is great for is flying enemies. As long as they are not 2 sizes larger than you, you can grapple them and force them to stay on the ground while your buddies (and in future turns you) pound them. They have to waste an action to try to escape.
I don't want to get even further into the weeds with all of this, but I will say that quite often the fact that people need to be in melee to deal damage makes limiting mobility a poor choice.
The rogue is not a character who is particularly good at being the focus of attention. You can, with uncanny dodge taking your reaction, but they were not designed for locking down enemies and forcing them to focus on you. I'm glad it works for you, but we take other approaches.
The thing that kills that character for me is the low dexterity and the disadvantagee on stealth. I just think it creates a tough time trying to sneak anywhere unless you leave him behind.
Sure, it can be a problem, but it is something you can work around. Plus, it is kind of hard to sneak anyways when no one is bothering to sneak. That group was very head-on with challenges. The only time the negative dex was an issue was actually another rolled magical item. I was given a crossbow that could heal people when shot with it. Seems great for a doctor, until I pointed out to the DM that with no proficiency, and a -1, I'd just be wasting my time trying to use it.
That was a box that gave random items though, so not as bad as the reward situation.
