Comparisions between classes

[Obsidian Razor]

Mhmhh.. those are all nice answers, thanks!

So basically, they diferenciate by tactics mainly...

Although the mayority seems to think that the rogue is worse than the ranger...

 

[Jhaelen]

Mhmhh.. those are all nice answers, thanks!

So basically, they diferenciate by tactics mainly...

Although the mayority seems to think that the rogue is worse than the ranger...

I'll say this:

- I've read a multipage thread arguing that Paladins suck because they have (too much) MAD.
- I've read a multipage thread arguing that Rogues are clearly the best strikers.
- I've read a multipage thread arguing that the Wizard is the weakest class.
- I've read a multipage thread arguing that the Wizard is the strongest class.

This makes me think that first impressions can be deceiving. It also makes me wonder if maybe the impossible could be true: The classes are actually pretty well balanced.

 

[Vayden]

I'm actually a big fan of the rogue compared to the ranger - I've seen the DPR charts that show a stormwarden ranger is the highest consistent damage, but that's because you don't need to hit to work a lot of that. A rogue will usually have the highest to-hit of anyone in the party and it's actually pretty easy to get into position for a sneak attack - once you do, you're going to hit on a 5 or higher in most cases and the sheer brutal amount of damage from that one hit (sly flourish, brutal scoundrel rogue with good dex/str/cha) is going to be higher than almost any other 1-hit dmg in the game. Yeah, the ranger has a better sustained dpr once you get to Stormwarden, but the rogue is still the alpha-strike king.

 

[Dooks Dizzo]

For my 2 bits, I like the Fighter better.

because truly, he only needs two stats to be powerful, strength and con. Wisdom is nice, but you can really live with only a +1 to wisdom since you'll have a high attack bonus anyway.

Paladins are good for when you roll that awesome stat set. A Pally really needs Str, Con and Cha to be effective.

Using the premade stats out of the book, you're not going to have a powerful Paladin, where as you can have a rather strong fighter, especially if he is a Dwarf.

Armor class is only going to be a point difference between the two of them. But in exchange, Fighters are going to hit a bit more often with their weapon talent.

Now take my opinion with a grain of salt, I really do just like fighters better.

16 str, 16 con, a greatsword and toughness = pretty tough out the gate. Good damage per round and 36 hit points at first level.

 

[ac_noj]

I think that the correct way of answering this question is to decide what your objective is, then break out a spreadsheet and see what's what.

LOL Ioisel, you'd use a spreadsheet to decide if you're going ot get up in the morning. Well here's another one for you, only it's for assessing a group not comparing classes: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=238633

Yeah, the ranger has a better sustained dpr once you get to Stormwarden, but the rogue is still the alpha-strike king.

...but the Rogue isn't the alpha-strike king, that's the trouble. It's actually the Ranger/Pit-Fighter thanks to the Armor-Splinter + Blade Cascade + Extra Damage Action combo.

 

[Dooks Dizzo]

The other deal is that the Paladins 'auto damage' is pretty minimal. 7 or 8 is about as high as you can get for the first 10 levels and that's blowing an 18 on Cha.

A damage spec'd fighter will do a lot more damage on a swing most the time.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

my experience with 4e Ranged Ranger is that at level 1, they do as much damage as rogue if not more, yet have a higher armor class and get attacked less if they are not directly in combat. So far the rogue has taken alot of hits and gone down once or twice, while i don't think my ranger has even gotten bloodied, so i think their is something to be said about dealing damage from afar.

 

[Dooks Dizzo]

Our ranger only does okay damage from range. Twin strike is cool and all but since you don't add any modifiers to the damage, it's not that big of a deal.

Our rogue sticks next to the Warlord for lots of flanking and healing when he needs it.

 

[Eric888]

My experience has been that, in practice, the fighter mark blows the paladin mark out of the water.

For one, the fighter mark can actually interrupt the target’s attempted action (in the case of a shift). Whereas an enemy marked by a paladin that really wants to shift and attack someone else can just take the damage, or he can shift one and flee and not take any attack or damage, which the fighter mark would stop those shenanigans.

Second, the fighter mark is much more powerful against artillery, controller, skirmisher, and any other character that predominately attacks at range. The paladin mark can’t really do anything about the shift one and shoot strategy. The fighter mark can singularly destroy many creatures entire ability to attack by preventing them from shifting to get out of provoking for a ranged attack.

Third, the fighter mark is free. The paladin mark takes a minor action. This may not seem like a big deal but it can be.

Fourth, the fighter gets to mark as many guys as he can attack. This can reliably hit everyone adjacent to him and in the case of dragonborne, half-elves, and some multi-classing can consume entire groups. And he gets his free attack against any of them that are adjacent not just one. The paladin mark on the other hand only targets a single enemy. The paladin can mark others with certain powers, but still only gets the DC damage against one of them.

Fifth and final, the fighter attack tends to average more damage than the paladin mark. There is a roughly 50% chance of missing, but even taking that into account 3 + charisma v [W] + strength + feats + enhancement is pretty impressive, and against a paladin who focused on strength it is downright comical how much more threatening it is.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

I think Twin strike is deceptively weak against a single target at first level. Its good against minions, but nimble strike or a basic attack is better.

This is assuming your are an elf and put an 18 in dex which then becomes a 20, and you have weapon focus or the feat that improves hunters quarry.

at that point you have 18 ac and are doing on average 16 points of damage. Using twin strike nets about the same average damage, but you must be able to hit twice. My experience is that the odds do not favor twin strike but at later levels it becomes more attractive.

the rogue does a few extra points of damage but i think that's ok because they tend to fight in melee.