D&D General Compelling and Differentiated Gameplay For Spellcasters and Martial Classes

[FrogReaver]

I'm still baffled at the Battlemaster maneuvers... Why can't I just use them at will, forgoeing the bonus damage?

I'd be perfectly fine trying to use Goading Attack all the time (even if the target can save against it mind you) even if it didn't improve my damage output. Maybe you can keep Superiority Dice as a limited ressource just to spike in damage every once in a while.



But WHY should we model THAT fiction in particular?

Because we are trying to fix D&D and that's the kind of fiction it models

 

[FrogReaver]

Arguably, yes. But, plausibly only in the reverse: mundane abilities - stats, shills, weapons, gear - should have predictable, defined, reliable effects, while magical/supernatural powers and heroic stunts should be more open-ended and risky.

But that doesn't model the fiction we are modeling.

 

[FrogReaver]

2) Conflict/scene resolution mechanics for action/obstacles outside of combat. An actual mechanical framework to resolve conflict naturally contracts the potency disparity between spellcasters and martial characters.

Unless this is what I've been referring to as player control of fiction then I'm not sure what it means. If it is player control of fiction then I've already discussed it and dismissed it because very broad player control of fiction mechanics aren't very popular.

3) Make relationship/influence/cohort mechanics robust, specifically for non-spellcasters.

Can work, but then there's the question of why casters don't get such things and fictionally that makes little sense.

4) Player-facing "say yes or roll the dice" abilities and action resolution handling for martial characters .

No idea what this is

5) Effective control riders on combat moves for martial characters (covering fire, deft footwork or overwhelming force imposing a catch-22 on enemies; do this thing you don't want to and x happens...do this other thing and y happens).

The real issue is the out of combat stuff. This does nothing for that.

Ultimately, it seems to me that your suggestions aren't taking into account if they make sense in the fiction. (Of course a fiction can be created to correspond to any mechanic, but these mechanics you've listed in general require a different fictional world than what we already have.

 

[Doug McCrae]

D&D is basically action-movie reality.

I don't think that's true. Compare D&D to games like WEG Star Wars and Feng Shui, which do attempt to simulate action movies. Even Eberron, which adds Action Points, doesn't really come close imo.

D&D is far too close to its wargame roots, too concerned with measuring distances and keeping track of location, and has too many limitations on movement (in 5e frex there are very specific values for how high/far PCs can jump) to model action movies.

 

[Don Durito]

There's a lot of talk about modelling fiction.

Which fiction?

(Not that 'modelling fiction' - any fiction - is a good description of what D&D does.)

 

[gyor]

Play up skills, be open minded about what skills can do, be flexible with skills & stat mixes, and good rping.

 

[Eubani]

Play up skills, be open minded about what skills can do, be flexible with skills & stat mixes, and good rping.

Once more for those up the back....."SPELLCASTERS CAN DO THAT AS WELL, THE UNBALANCE OF AGENCY STILL REMAINS".

 

[Son of the Serpent]

You do realize that reality actually does have an influence on the possibilities of fantasy right? Lets see if anyone catches my drift...heh...

 

[Oofta]

I don't think that's true. Compare D&D to games like WEG Star Wars and Feng Shui, which do attempt to simulate action movies. Even Eberron, which adds Action Points, doesn't really come close imo.

D&D is far too close to its wargame roots, too concerned with measuring distances and keeping track of location, and has too many limitations on movement (in 5e frex there are very specific values for how high/far PCs can jump) to model action movies.

Poe-tae-toe poe-tah-toe. There are any number of ways of describing it. What I was referencing was the fine until your dead, easy wound recovery, the hero mowing down bad guys and so on.

I am not going to get into an argument about what genre D&D is ... but it certainly isn't reality.

 

[FrogReaver]

Once more for those up the back....."SPELLCASTERS CAN DO THAT AS WELL, THE UNBALANCE OF AGENCY STILL REMAINS".

Agreed. Both martial and spell casters both can use skills. So unless we are talking about a feature like expertise then skill usage doesn't resolve the issue.

I don't think there can be a resolution to the issue. Every possible solution is in conflict with something a lot of people like about what we currently have. Fixing something by removing something people like isn't much of a fix is it?