D&D 5E concentration in 5th edition, whats my fix?

[houser2112]

Another potential mechanic that could be added is to change is so that, when you cast a new concentration spell, any previous concentration spells you were maintaining are just suppressed instead of terminated. That way you can have something like Hunter's Mark, which lasts an hour, and not lose it because you wanted to cast something like Ensnaring Strike or Zephyr Strike. You just don't get the benefits of Hunter's Mark while you're maintaining the other spell, but you don't waste the spell slot from the original cast, either.

This would be a good way to balance the situation I mentioned earlier: You have hunter's mark going, but you need the extra oomph from lightning arrow. I would consider using the latter if I knew I wouldn't be losing the former to do so. Under the current rules, I think the situation would have to be desperate for me to consider it.

 

[GameOgre]

I removed the concentration portion of the rules that limited spells stacking and kept the danger of losing a spell due to damage ect and so far am fairly happy with the results. It can make caster more powerful and useful but that's not a bad thing in my book.

I'm not saying it can't be overpowering but like so much other stuff in 5E I don't find it too overpowering for the bad guys to use as well as the good guys.

 

[Hussar]

No, you're missing mine

The fact the DM can hand out items that let you do a combo is a poor argument to allow it by default.

The point is about DM control. Even the most broken item in the world is no balance problem as long as you never find one (=the DM never gives it to you).

But every spell in the PHB is open to player selection (at least in my game). The DM is not supposed to have to screen individual spells before allowing a player to pick them.

This means that a combo is okay as a magic item even if slightly unbalanced since any DM that objects to it can keep it out of his or her game, while that is not the case for spells (at least not those in the PHB).

I hope I managed to explain my point better this time.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

Fair enough. But, again, I'd look at the specific rather than the general.

Does anyone actually believe a Ring of Warmth is overpowering or broken? It's a pretty minor magic item that I don't think any DM in history has ever worried about dropping into the game. But, technically, it does allow an "always on" concentration effect - a 3rd level Protection from Energy spell. Any "plussed" item works this way as well.

So, the notion that allowing multiple concentration spells isn't necessarily a problem. The problem is, how do you predict the interactions between multiple concentration spells? Is the world going to come to an end if Silent Image is allowed to stack? Probably not.

OTOH, it's probably too much of a PITA to comb through all the spells and figure this out.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Fair enough. But, again, I'd look at the specific rather than the general.

Does anyone actually believe a Ring of Warmth is overpowering or broken? It's a pretty minor magic item that I don't think any DM in history has ever worried about dropping into the game. But, technically, it does allow an "always on" concentration effect - a 3rd level Protection from Energy spell. Any "plussed" item works this way as well.

So, the notion that allowing multiple concentration spells isn't necessarily a problem. The problem is, how do you predict the interactions between multiple concentration spells? Is the world going to come to an end if Silent Image is allowed to stack? Probably not.

OTOH, it's probably too much of a PITA to comb through all the spells and figure this out.

On the other hand, whereas Protection from Energy offers variable resistance to fit your given situation, a Ring of Warmth fixed to resist cold. This is in some ways more akin to Protection from Poison and Fire Shield, which do NOT require concentration despite granting resistance.

What I'm saying is that if you had a 3rd level spell called Protection from Cold, where all it did was grant you resistance to cold damage, it probably wouldn't require concentration. In fact, based on Protection from Poison, that spell would actually be a 2nd level spell. It's the adaptable nature of Protection from Energy that adds the concentration requirement (and extra level).

 

[Kinematics]

On the other hand, whereas Protection from Energy offers variable resistance to fit your given situation, a Ring of Warmth fixed to resist cold. This is in some ways more akin to Protection from Poison and Fire Shield, which do NOT require concentration despite granting resistance.

What I'm saying is that if you had a 3rd level spell called Protection from Cold, where all it did was grant you resistance to cold damage, it probably wouldn't require concentration. In fact, based on Protection from Poison, that spell would actually be a 2nd level spell. It's the adaptable nature of Protection from Energy that adds the concentration requirement (and extra level).

Yeah, having all the resistances in a single spell means you don't have to prepare five different spells just to handle the different damage types. But at the same time, they don't want you to be able to sequentially cast them and gain resistance to all five damage types at once for the next hour. Thus, concentration as a gate.

Except that it really doesn't have to be that way. Add a re-cast termination clause and you can prevent that.

The real question is, does this need to be a disruptable spell? If an enemy mage was using this spell, and you caused them to lose concentration on it at some point after you learned that they had resistance to, say, fire, would you even know the buff dropped? Would it matter?

Protection from Energy certainly needs some limits on it, but is concentration really the limit that is most appropriate? Or is it just the limit that was slapped on any such spells because it was the only tool available?

But yeah, comparing the spell with the magic ring doesn't really work. There's clear reason to want to limit the spell in ways that just don't apply to the ring. (Whereas the ring is competing for attunement slots, which is a different mechanic entirely, but in some ways very similar to concentration.)

 

[Gadget]

I think the re-cast ends idea has some merit, particularly for some of the concentration cantrips; but it does not take into account the 'layering of buffs' effect that was so prevalent in 3e. Casting Haste, or Protection from Energy, etc. over, and over again is not the main worry (And really the option to affect more targets with higher level slots should be built in to these spells): it is combining the two together with, say, Stoneskin or some other buff to make the target even more resilient that is the concern. Not to mention, there is the danger of "pre-combat checklists of spells to cast" that could become common; and heaven help you if a Dispel Magic comes out mid combat.

That does bring up another issue though: would it break the game to allow Protection from Energy to affect more targets when cast in higher level slots? Would this option be used? What about Haste?

 

[houser2112]

Not to mention, there is the danger of "pre-combat checklists of spells to cast" that could become common; and heaven help you if a Dispel Magic comes out mid combat.

Are you referring to the flurry of math that would result from a mid-combat dispel magic in earlier editions? I don't think that would be a problem because of the rarity of spells that affect the math like before.

 

[cbwjm]

That does bring up another issue though: would it break the game to allow Protection from Energy to affect more targets when cast in higher level slots? Would this option be used? What about Haste?

All this time I thought protection from energy did work like this.

For spells that don't scale to allow more targets, I'm wondering if doing away with concentration would actually be all that unbalancing. I know some people are worried about a "5 minute work day" but I think that is somewhat controlled by the pacing of the adventure. Protection from Energy, for instance, I think would be fine if it didn't have concentration and just lasted an hour.

 

[Gadget]

Are you referring to the flurry of math that would result from a mid-combat dispel magic in earlier editions? I don't think that would be a problem because of the rarity of spells that affect the math like before.

Most buff spells affect the math in some, albeit minor, way; even if it is only resistance. It would still require a modest amount of bookkeeping to keep track of who has resistance to what, or advantage to what, or plus x to what. And that still leaves the pre-combat layering of buffs wide open. I would be more inclined to things like: "This Rod of the Pack Keeper maintains concentration on Hex for you" type of specialized magic items, outside of allowing certain buffs to scale with slot level.

It might also be worthwhile to look at individual spells and see if upcasting them enough could get rid of concentration entirely. Would casting Greater Invisibility in a 9th level slot be enough to remove the concentration requirement? Would that 'break' the game? What about an 8th level slot?