Converting Epic Level Creatures

[freyar]

Man, I have nothing on this question. Without the ELH, I don't have flavor on the primals, so I can't say which of you two makes the most sense. I guess, without seeing the flavor, I'd allow summoning primal elementals, but I really don't know.

 

[Shade]

Suggested compromise: Allow them to summon "X Hit Dice of elementals" and leave it up to the DM to decide upon the types.

 

[Cleon]

Suggested compromise: Allow them to summon "X Hit Dice of elementals" and leave it up to the DM to decide upon the types.

Oh yes, I forgot about the Monoliths.

I suppose some Hit Dice based approach will do, something like this:

Summon Elementals: An [air/earth/fire/water] elemaster can summon [air/earth/fire/water] elementals as a standard action. It can summon up to 420 Hit Dice of elementals a day in any number and variety it wishes, but the elemaster cannot summon an elemental with more than 64 HD.

 

[freyar]

Fair enough.

 

[Shade]

Updated.

I just noticed the air monlith has a higher benefit from air mastery (imposing a -2 rather than -1 penalty). Although the primal elementals didn't use this, I like it, and could see going even higher for the air elemaster. Maybe as high as -5?

Skills: 15 at 89 ranks
I figure all elemasters should have: Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (the planes), Knowledge (religion), Listen, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device

The air elemaster might additionally have Balance and Tumble as well (like the air monolith). Maybe also Escape Artist and Move Silently?

Feats: 29 (22 can be epic)

Air monolith has Alertness, Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (slam), Iron Will, Mobility, Power Attack, Spring Attack

Primal air elemental has Alertness, Blinding Speed (x2), Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Epic Prowess (x2), Epic Toughness (x4), Epic Will, Flyby Attack, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Spring Attack, Superior Initiative, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (slam)

Yan-C-Bin (Prince of Evil Air Creatures) has Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Corrupt Summoning B, Dodge, Epic Will, Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative (B), Mobility, Power Attack, Spring Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Whirlwind Attack

Chan (Prince of Good Air Creatures) has Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Epic Skill Focus (Gather Information), Epic Will, Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative (B), Mobility, Power Attack, Purify Summoning (B), Spring Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Whirlwind Attack

 

[Cleon]

Updated.

It's missing the air version of Master of [Element] Magic:

Master of Air Magic (Sp): Elemasters can cast spells as spell-like abilities with a caster level of 24. An air elemaster can not cast spells that have the Earth descriptor spell or are opposed in alignment. At will, an air elemaster may use any spell that either has the Air description, is a core divine spell from the cleric spell list or is in the Creation, Air or Weather domains (its Creation domain has whispering wind as the 1st level spell instead of create water). An elemaster may use any spell on the cleric spell list from a non-core source once per day (at the DM's discretion); these spells are rarer in the cosmos. The saving throw DC for these spells is Y + spell level (10 + spell level + elemaster's Charisma bonus). Air elemasters tend to favor spells such as elemental swarm (air), control weather and whirlwind.
​

They've also got a size changing power we haven't written up, but is something like:

Size Change (Su): An elemaster can become any size, from Fine to its natural size of Colossal.
​

I just noticed the air monlith has a higher benefit from air mastery (imposing a -2 rather than -1 penalty). Although the primal elementals didn't use this, I like it, and could see going even higher for the air elemaster. Maybe as high as -5?

Great idea! -5 seems a bit too high, but I like -4.

Skills: 15 at 89 ranks
I figure all elemasters should have: Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (the planes), Knowledge (religion), Listen, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device

The air elemaster might additionally have Balance and Tumble as well (like the air monolith). Maybe also Escape Artist and Move Silently?

I'd add Knowledge (nature) as Elemasters supposedly oversee natural processes. That's one skill too many, so I'd cut Escape Artist (since it can assume fine size and gaseous form at will the skill seems superfluous).

Air Elemaster: Balance, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Move Silently, Tumble, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device
​

For the Fire Elemaster, I don't think they should have Move Silently - they're crackling flames, not whispering winds! Fire's tricksy, so I'd give it Bluff or Escape Artist. Let's say Escape Artist since it doesn't get gaseous form from Master of Fire Magic:

Fire Elemaster: Balance, Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Tumble, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device
​

For the Earth Elemaster, Appraise instead of Tumble? I'd also drop Escape Artist. Guess we can give them Bluff, since it's very difficult to read a rock's expression.

Earth Elemaster: Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device
​

Finally, Escape Artist seems appropriate for a Water Elemental.

Water Elemaster: Balance, Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device
​

Feats: 29 (22 can be epic)

Air monolith has Alertness, Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (slam), Iron Will, Mobility, Power Attack, Spring Attack

Primal air elemental has Alertness, Blinding Speed (x2), Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Epic Prowess (x2), Epic Toughness (x4), Epic Will, Flyby Attack, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Spring Attack, Superior Initiative, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (slam)

Yan-C-Bin (Prince of Evil Air Creatures) has Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Corrupt Summoning B, Dodge, Epic Will, Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative (B), Mobility, Power Attack, Spring Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Whirlwind Attack

Chan (Prince of Good Air Creatures) has Blind-Fight, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Epic Skill Focus (Gather Information), Epic Will, Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative (B), Mobility, Power Attack, Purify Summoning (B), Spring Attack, Weapon Finesse (B), Whirlwind Attack

I'll have to think about this for a bit...

 

[Shade]

It's missing the air version of Master of [Element] Magic

I'll add it.

They've also got a size changing power we haven't written up, but is something like:

Size Change (Su): An elemaster can become any size, from Fine to its natural size of Colossal.
​

That'll probably work. Do we need to say it functions as enlarge/reduce person?

Great idea! -5 seems a bit too high, but I like -4.

I'm fine with -4.

I'd add Knowledge (nature) as Elemasters supposedly oversee natural processes. That's one skill too many, so I'd cut Escape Artist (since it can assume fine size and gaseous form at will the skill seems superfluous).

Air Elemaster: Balance, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Move Silently, Tumble, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device
​

For the Fire Elemaster, I don't think they should have Move Silently - they're crackling flames, not whispering winds! Fire's tricksy, so I'd give it Bluff or Escape Artist. Let's say Escape Artist since it doesn't get gaseous form from Master of Fire Magic:

Fire Elemaster: Balance, Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Tumble, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device
​

For the Earth Elemaster, Appraise instead of Tumble? I'd also drop Escape Artist. Guess we can give them Bluff, since it's very difficult to read a rock's expression.

Earth Elemaster: Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device
​

Finally, Escape Artist seems appropriate for a Water Elemental.

Water Elemaster: Balance, Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device
​

That all appeals.

My feat suggestions:

Alertness, Blind-Fight, Blinding Speed (x2), Cleave, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Devastating Critical (slam), Dire Charge, Divine Might, Dodge, Epic Fortitude, Epic Reflexes, Epic Skill Focus (Knowledge [the planes]), Epic Will, Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative (B), Improved Whirlwind Attack, Iron Will, Mobility, Overwhelming Critical (slam), Power Attack, Spring Attack, Stand Still, Superior Initiative, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam), Whirlwind Attack

 

[Cleon]

I'll add it.

That'll probably work. Do we need to say it functions as enlarge/reduce person?

In what way? -2 Strength and +2 Dex per size shift plus the size adjustments to AC, grapple, weapon damage and attacks of the new size?

Something like:

Size Change (Su): An elemaster can become any size, from Fine to its natural size of Colossal. For every size decrease from Colossal the elemaster has a -2 Strength penalty and a +2 Dexterity penalty and its slam attack damage is reduced by 1 step. Its size modifiers to AC, grapple and attacks become those of its new size.

Would it be easier to include the changes in a little table?

I'm fine with -4.

Let's do that, then.

That all appeals.

My feat suggestions:

Alertness, Blind-Fight, Blinding Speed (x2), Cleave, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Devastating Critical (slam), Dire Charge, Divine Might, Dodge, Epic Fortitude, Epic Reflexes, Epic Skill Focus (Knowledge [the planes]), Epic Will, Flyby Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative (B), Improved Whirlwind Attack, Iron Will, Mobility, Overwhelming Critical (slam), Power Attack, Spring Attack, Stand Still, Superior Initiative, Weapon Finesse (B), Weapon Focus (slam), Whirlwind Attack

That looks good, except Stand Still doesn't seem very "airy" to me.

How about Fleet of Foot instead?

 

[Shade]

In what way? -2 Strength and +2 Dex per size shift plus the size adjustments to AC, grapple, weapon damage and attacks of the new size?

Something like:

Size Change (Su): An elemaster can become any size, from Fine to its natural size of Colossal. For every size decrease from Colossal the elemaster has a -2 Strength penalty and a +2 Dexterity penalty and its slam attack damage is reduced by 1 step. Its size modifiers to AC, grapple and attacks become those of its new size.

Would it be easier to include the changes in a little table?

Hmmm...on second thought, let's just stick with the normal size change rules. Then the table is already available.

That looks good, except Stand Still doesn't seem very "airy" to me.

How about Fleet of Foot instead?

I have no problem with replacing Stand Still, but we have two problems with FoF: it lacks the Run prereq, and doesn't have a land speed.

Other suggestions?

 

[freyar]

If it needs to be non-epic, what about Sidestep Charge? We never use it, so it could be a "just for the heck of it" kind of choice, and it seems somehow thematically appropriate. It's the opposite of Stand Still in some ways.