Converting First Edition monsters from DRAGON magazine

[Shade]

Plane shift is will negates.

Since engulfed considers 'em grappled, how about a successful grapple check to avoid expulsion?

 

[BOZ]

i don't know that i like thinking of creatures in a creeping pit as grappled.

 

[Shade]

Then I'd go with the Reflex save like the fiendwurm. Will doesn't make any sense, and Fort makes less sense than Reflex for "avoiding ejection".

 

[BOZ]

ejection? you mean being shunted to another plane... someone would have to have awfully nice reflexes to be able to jump from out of a 10-foot hole when the whole thing is teleporting its contents away.

 

[BOZ]

I need to address something that I probably should have brought up before.

Creatures that fall into a creeping pit, either because they were attacked by it or because they could not see it, are not grappled. They simply fall in, as the pit itself is just like any other hole in the ground (except that it moves). I intended to mention that we needed to put a note in there about how to escape (a DC 15 Climb or Jump check, perhaps) but I kept forgetting. if this means that the attack should not be called Engulf for reasons of clarity, then we need to call it something else.

Therefore, since there isn't really anything holding a victim in there except gravity, and possibly injury, it's relatively easy to escape. Of course, anyone escaping will be attacked again, but that is beside the point. The idea is to get away (if you can) before the hourly astral portal comes up again. If you are stuck being unable to get out of the pit for long enough to be unable to avoid the teleport, that is a shame. If you've been trying unsuccessfully for several minutes to get out of a 10-foot deep pit, I don't think that you will suddenly gain enough leaping ability to jump out when the saving throw comes along.

Therefore, I have to say that I think Reflex is the least sensible of the three. Since the effect of being sent to the astral plane is a teleportation effect, like plane shift, I think a Will save like what plane shift has makes the most sense to avoid being pulled along by the magic. Fortitude, by process of elimination alone, would be the second-best choice.

 

[Shade]

Well, when you put it like that...

Yeah, Will save makes the most sense.

 

[BOZ]

now, for the astral votex power, which occurs when the creepit pit dies and sucks in everything within 10 feet, Reflex is still the best because one only needs to get out of that radius to be safe. everything inside the pit at that point would be sucked into the Astral with no save at all.

updating in homebrews...

I intended to mention that we needed to put a note in there about how to escape (a DC 15 Climb or Jump check, perhaps) but I kept forgetting. if this means that the attack should not be called Engulf for reasons of clarity, then we need to call it something else.

oh yeah, that's right!

 

[Shade]

Let's rename "engulf" to "entrap" or something else to avoid confusion with the usual ability.

A DC 15 climb check makes sense. In order to Jump 10 feet up, however, the DC would be 40.

 

[BOZ]

Sounds good. Updating in homebrews again.

 

[Shade]

Add "ooze traits" to SQ line.

CR: A 20-ft. pit trap is CR 1. This critter expels you onto the Astral Plane, so that's worth a few CRs. It's about comparable in power to the summoning ooze, which is CR 4. I'd recommend CR 4.

Astral Vortex: I'd go Con-based, making the DC 18.