Cleon
Legend
Thanks.
So, how about we take a Bugbear and apply the Tortle's racial adjustments to it? That would put us halfway there.
I'll start a Working Draft to show what that'd look like
Oh, and surely it should be Reptilian?
Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters
- Thread starter Shade
- Start date
Thanks.
So, how about we take a Bugbear and apply the Tortle's racial adjustments to it? That would put us halfway there.
I'll start a Working Draft to show what that'd look like
Oh, and surely it should be Reptilian?
Cleon
Legend
Snapper Working Draft
Snapper
Medium Humanoid (Reptilian, Tortle)
Hit Dice: 3d8+6 (19 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), swim 40 ft.
Armor Class: 15 (+5 natural) touch 10, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+4
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d8+2) or lance +4 melee (1d8+3/×3) or heavy crossbow +3 ranged (1d10/19-20) or net +2 ranged (special)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d8+2) and 2 claws +2 melee (1d4+1); or lance +4 melee (1d8+3/×3) and bite +2 melee (1d8+1); or heavy crossbow +3 ranged (1d10/19-20); or net +2 ranged (special)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Hold breath, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +1, Will +1
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 9
Skills: Listen +3, Spot +3, Swim +10
Feats: Endurance, Multiattack (B), Weapon Focus (heavy crossbow)
Environment: Warm aquatic
Organization: Solitary or pack (2-20)
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually lawful evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +2
A humanoid turtle with a lumpy brown shell, webbed hands and feet, claws and a vicious, flesh-tearing beak.
A snapper is a marine relative of the tortle. They are vicious carnivores quite unlike the placid, peaceful tortles. These turtle-folk gather in small packs governed by mutual consent, although the strongest and most cunning members have the greatest say in decisions. They do not form tribes, build villages or have recognized leaders. Snappers are famously bad-tempered and attack other creatures at the least provocation. Tortles and snappers sometimes come into conflict over control of a shoreline.
Clumsy on land, a snapper is fast and agile in the water. They are migratory creatures, roaming the oceans from one hunting ground to another. A snapper may swim hundreds of leagues to reach a hunting ground or nesting site. During their mating season, snappers congregate at special beaches, where they lay their eggs in rock-walled roofless labyrinths just above the high-tide mark. The snappers defend these places fiercely, attacking all intruders.
Snappers often ride the turtle-like beast called nikt'oo, which they train for aggressiveness in combat. They also use nikt'oo as pack animals to carry their possessions while migrating.
A typical snapper stands from 6 to 7 feet tall and weighs about 500 pounds.
Snappers speak a curt dialect of the Tortle language as well as Draconic.
COMBAT
Snappers are ill-tempered and territorial, apt to viciously attack at the least provocation. They usually open combat by shooting crossbow bolts, and switch to claws and bite in close combat. Snappers often throw nets at fast-moving opponents to try to remove their speed advantage.
Hold Breath (Ex): A snapper can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 10 × its Constitution score before it risks drowning. For a typical snapper, this is 150 rounds, or 15 minutes.
Snappers As Characters
Snapper characters possess the following racial traits. Snapper clerics can choose from the following domains: Strength, Water, and War.
Snapper
Medium Humanoid (Reptilian, Tortle)
Hit Dice: 3d8+6 (19 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), swim 40 ft.
Armor Class: 15 (+5 natural) touch 10, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+4
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d8+2) or lance +4 melee (1d8+3/×3) or heavy crossbow +3 ranged (1d10/19-20) or net +2 ranged (special)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d8+2) and 2 claws +2 melee (1d4+1); or lance +4 melee (1d8+3/×3) and bite +2 melee (1d8+1); or heavy crossbow +3 ranged (1d10/19-20); or net +2 ranged (special)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Hold breath, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +1, Will +1
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 9
Skills: Listen +3, Spot +3, Swim +10
Feats: Endurance, Multiattack (B), Weapon Focus (heavy crossbow)
Environment: Warm aquatic
Organization: Solitary or pack (2-20)
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually lawful evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +2
A humanoid turtle with a lumpy brown shell, webbed hands and feet, claws and a vicious, flesh-tearing beak.
A snapper is a marine relative of the tortle. They are vicious carnivores quite unlike the placid, peaceful tortles. These turtle-folk gather in small packs governed by mutual consent, although the strongest and most cunning members have the greatest say in decisions. They do not form tribes, build villages or have recognized leaders. Snappers are famously bad-tempered and attack other creatures at the least provocation. Tortles and snappers sometimes come into conflict over control of a shoreline.
Clumsy on land, a snapper is fast and agile in the water. They are migratory creatures, roaming the oceans from one hunting ground to another. A snapper may swim hundreds of leagues to reach a hunting ground or nesting site. During their mating season, snappers congregate at special beaches, where they lay their eggs in rock-walled roofless labyrinths just above the high-tide mark. The snappers defend these places fiercely, attacking all intruders.
Snappers often ride the turtle-like beast called nikt'oo, which they train for aggressiveness in combat. They also use nikt'oo as pack animals to carry their possessions while migrating.
A typical snapper stands from 6 to 7 feet tall and weighs about 500 pounds.
Snappers speak a curt dialect of the Tortle language as well as Draconic.
COMBAT
Snappers are ill-tempered and territorial, apt to viciously attack at the least provocation. They usually open combat by shooting crossbow bolts, and switch to claws and bite in close combat. Snappers often throw nets at fast-moving opponents to try to remove their speed advantage.
Hold Breath (Ex): A snapper can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 10 × its Constitution score before it risks drowning. For a typical snapper, this is 150 rounds, or 15 minutes.
Snappers As Characters
Snapper characters possess the following racial traits. Snapper clerics can choose from the following domains: Strength, Water, and War.
- +4 Strength, +4 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma.
- Medium size.
- A snapper's base land speed is 20 feet and it has a swim speed of 40 feet.
- Racial Hit Dice: A snapper begins with three levels of humanoid, which provide 3d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +2, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +3, Ref +1, and Will +1.
- Racial Skills: A snapper's humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 6 x (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Listen, Spot, Survival, and Swim.
- Racial Feats: A snapper's humanoid levels give it two feats. A snapper has Multiattack as a bonus feat.
- Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A snapper is automatically proficient with lances, simple weapons and shields.
- Natural Weapons: bite (1d8) and 2 claws (1d4).
- Special Qualities (see above): Low-light vision, hold breath.
- Automatic Languages: Draconic and Tortle. Bonus Languages: Aquan and Sylvan.
- Favored Class: Barbarian.
- Level adjustment: +2
Last edited:
Cleon
Legend
I'm thinking we should give them heavy crossbows rather than the longbows mentioned in the text - a longbow seems the wrong weapon to wield while swimming!
Perhaps they use longbows when on dry land (as on deep-penetration raids), but switch to the more convenient crossbows when in the water?
Do we want to do anything with the "On land they are just as clumsy as tortles, but in water they are very agile" bit in the Snapper's Mystaran Monstrous Compendium writeup?
Perhaps a circumstance bonus/penalty to Dex depending on whether they're swimming or walking?
Perhaps they use longbows when on dry land (as on deep-penetration raids), but switch to the more convenient crossbows when in the water?
Do we want to do anything with the "On land they are just as clumsy as tortles, but in water they are very agile" bit in the Snapper's Mystaran Monstrous Compendium writeup?
Perhaps a circumstance bonus/penalty to Dex depending on whether they're swimming or walking?
Cleon
Legend
I've just read the entry of the Nikt'oo (a 10-12 foot turtlelike creature that Tortles and Snappers like to ride), and curiously enough they have this very ability:
Looks like we'll have to convert this charmer once we've finished the Sea Turtle conversion.Savage Coast Monstrous Compendium said:
Cleon
Legend
It's not so much that I'm powering the Snapper up, but that the Dragon #315 version depowered the original 4 Hit Dice Tortles to a 1 Hit Dice LA +0 creature. The 3.5 version also cut the Tortle's armour class, "withdraw limbs" special defense and ability to hold their breath.
I'd much rather keep the Snapper's 3 HD and make a conversion that's truer to the original.
Oh, Tortles liked to use crossbows, polearms and two-handed swords in the original product - not the tridents of the Dragon #315 version. Indeed, it's the Snappers who use tridents, according to Mystara Monstrous Compendium (as well as nets and spears).
Well that would explain the weapon proficiency in longbows, I suppose.
Cleon
Legend
Regarding the Snapper, I'm wondering about making the bite the primary attack and the claws secondary - they are "Snappers", after all, and it gives them a bit more justification for using weapons.
For the weapon, I'm leaning toward lance. That'd be useful (i.e. more damaging) when they're riding a Nikt'oo. It'll also explain why they ride Nikt'oos, since they swim as fast as Nikt'oos do - it's for the extra damage of a lance charge.
I'm also thinking I should cut the claws to 1d4 damage and the bite to 1d8.
Also, I'm strongly tempted to give them Multiattack.
Giving them nets is also tempting, since those are mentioned in their Mystara MC.
Combined, that would give them:
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d8+2) or [lance?] +4 melee (1d8+3/×3) or [heavy crossbow?] +0 ranged (1d10/19-20) or net +0 ranged (special)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d8+2) and 2 claws +2 melee (1d4+1); or [lance?] +4 melee (1d8+3/×3) and bite +2 melee (1d8+1); or [heavy crossbow?] +0 ranged (1d10/19-20); or net +0 ranged (special)
Feats: 2 Multiattack plus one
For the weapon, I'm leaning toward lance. That'd be useful (i.e. more damaging) when they're riding a Nikt'oo. It'll also explain why they ride Nikt'oos, since they swim as fast as Nikt'oos do - it's for the extra damage of a lance charge.
I'm also thinking I should cut the claws to 1d4 damage and the bite to 1d8.
Also, I'm strongly tempted to give them Multiattack.
Giving them nets is also tempting, since those are mentioned in their Mystara MC.
Combined, that would give them:
Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d8+2) or [lance?] +4 melee (1d8+3/×3) or [heavy crossbow?] +0 ranged (1d10/19-20) or net +0 ranged (special)
Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d8+2) and 2 claws +2 melee (1d4+1); or [lance?] +4 melee (1d8+3/×3) and bite +2 melee (1d8+1); or [heavy crossbow?] +0 ranged (1d10/19-20); or net +0 ranged (special)
Feats: 2 Multiattack plus one
Cleon
Legend
Alternatively, if you really want a LA +0 version, we could split them into two creature like we did with the 3 HD Gurrash "Lizard Man" and the 7 HD Gurrash "Gator Man".
Then we might both be happy.
Mortis
First Post
I'm not particularly in favour of a LA +0 snapper. I think the reason that the tortle in Dragon 315 was given that treatment was that it was a standard playable race for that region of Mystara.
Regards
Mortis
P.S. Lets hope that there is never an offical 4E version of the tortle - given that over the previous editions its HD have halved with each new edition (4HD in BXCMI -> 2 in 2E -> 1 in 3E).
Regards
Mortis
P.S. Lets hope that there is never an offical 4E version of the tortle - given that over the previous editions its HD have halved with each new edition (4HD in BXCMI -> 2 in 2E -> 1 in 3E).
Cleon
Legend
I'm not particularly in favour of a LA +0 snapper. I think the reason that the tortle in Dragon 315 was given that treatment was that it was a standard playable race for that region of Mystara.
Regards
Mortis
P.S. Lets hope that there is never an offical 4E version of the tortle - given that over the previous editions its HD have halved with each new edition (4HD in BXCMI -> 2 in 2E -> 1 in 3E).
Should you not be more worried about 1/4 Hit Dice Tortles in "D&D Next"?
I hear they're going to be the new kobolds.
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