Converting the Dukes of Hell

[Shroomy]

I don't have FCII in front of me, but I do have a copy of the BoVD and each of the archfiends depicted therein pretty much has a deflection and an insight bonus, and the natural armor bonuses never went above +25. Having a very, very high natural armor bonus doesn't seem right to me, and it leaves the dukes very vulnerable to touch attacks.

 

[Gothenem]

FCII does not have said bonuses. IMHO I think that was a drastic mistake, as I think that all archfiends should have some sort of AC bonus like that. I would vote for a Profane bonus to AC, or barring that, an Insight bonus.

 

[Aspect of BOZ]

i'm fine with going back to the Wis bonus = insight bonus, if that's fine with all of you. for the sake of ease, i'd like to apply whatever we decide for AC to each of these guys (regarless of how they're presented in any other book). either just insight, just deflection, insight and deflection, or straight natural armor, would apply to all cases.

 

[Shade]

I'm opposed to the insight and deflection bonuses (at least, not granted by items). Not only do none of the FCII archdevils have it, nor do the FCI demon lords, but even in the Demonomicon James has moved away from using them. (Note that Dagon and Kotsctchtie have deflection bonuses granted from unholy aura, not a measure of their Cha modifier).

I'm fine with allowing for unholy aura to account for a deflection bonus, or giving them items that fall within the wealth commensurate to their CR, but I'd hate to make them "better" than their superiors.

I really wish they'd stuck with them, as I thought it was a great idea, but I don't want to cause compatibility issues at this stage in the game.

 

[Gothenem]

Noted. In this case, I would agree with using items and such to enhance their AC.

Possibly in some cases, a special effect here or there, or a unique item.

 

[Aspect of BOZ]

i'd hate to have them depending on items to increase their stats - let the DM decide if he wants to use that for them. let's look into that unholy aura option a bit more. what does that entail?

i worked out the desription a bit more, given what Gothenem suggested:
This otherwise handsome, dark-robed humanoid figure has the head of a fearsome bird of prey where a human head should be. His beak is long and curved somewhat, like that of a hummingbird’s, and his sickly green eyes stare out with confidence and malice. He deftly wields a weapon in each hand.

 

[Shade]

i'd hate to have them depending on items to increase their stats - let the DM decide if he wants to use that for them. let's look into that unholy aura option a bit more. what does that entail?

Well, FCII has many of them relying on such items.

Basically, if the creature has unholy aura at will, he gains a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saves. Since it is at will, they went ahead and figured these bonuses into the stat block of the archdevils in FC2. Anything less than at will, though, won't work, as it only lasts 1 round/level.

i worked out the desription a bit more, given what Gothenem suggested:
This otherwise handsome, dark-robed humanoid figure has the head of a fearsome bird of prey where a human head should be. His beak is long and curved somewhat, like that of a hummingbird’s, and his sickly green eyes stare out with confidence and malice. He deftly wields a weapon in each hand.

Looks good.

 

[Aspect of BOZ]

Well, FCII has many of them relying on such items.

and...? don't forget, though, you're talking about aspects. they might have to rely on a power boost that the more powerful form would take for granted.

how do the demonomicon articles handle the AC issue? since those are supposed to be the non-aspect stats, that would be more applicable.

Basically, if the creature has unholy aura at will, he gains a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saves. Since it is at will, they went ahead and figured these bonuses into the stat block of the archdevils in FC2. Anything less than at will, though, won't work, as it only lasts 1 round/level.

hmm, at will, so in other words a standard action? well that's lame-o. if it's more like a free action, that would be a heck of a lot more useful.

 

[Shade]

and...? don't forget, though, you're talking about aspects. they might have to rely on a power boost that the more powerful form would take for granted.

how do the demonomicon articles handle the AC issue? since those are supposed to be the non-aspect stats, that would be more applicable.

High natural armor and some have the unholy aura factored in.

Dagon: 54 (-8 size, +2 Dex, +46 natural, +4 deflection*), touch 8, flat-footed 52
Kostchtchie: 46 (-2 size, +2 Dex, +24 natural, +8 armor, +4 deflection*), touch 14, flat-footed 44
Malcanthet: 50 (+11 Dex, +12 natural, +17 deflection**), touch 38, flat-footed 39
Fraz-Urb'luu: 41 (-2 size, +5 Dex, +23 natural, +5 insight), touch 18, flat-footed 36
Zuggtmoy: 41 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +30 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 30
Baphomet: 39 (-1 size, +4 Dex, +26 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 39
Pazuzu: 46 (+14 Dex, +14 natural, +8 insight), touch 32, flat-footed 32

*From cloak of chaos (Dagon) or unholy aura (big K).
**From profane beauty ability.

Only Fraz and Paz have the insight bonus, and both predated the Fiendish Codices.

hmm, at will, so in other words a standard action? well that's lame-o. if it's more like a free action, that would be a heck of a lot more useful.

Yeah, but they only have to do so once every 2 minutes, and can "reset the clock" anytime before then.

Here's what Dagon's strats and tactics say: "He is never encountered without having already activated a cloak of chaos spell-like ability."

 

[Aspect of BOZ]

d'oh! i wasn't reading the /level part! 1 round/HD should be good enough.

i think we should either go with unholy aura for all, then, or come up with something similar to Mal's profane beauty and give that to all (since devils and Charisma go hand in hand)... in fact, i think the latter might be the best way to handle it. what does that ability look like?